What a Difference of Opinion

[abbey1227]

May 17, 2021 5:19:06 GMT Prometheus said:

So... do all the things that will combat "climate change" without ever mentioning "climate change." Got it.

This is one of those funny/sad areas that make me laugh. We can agree that 'everyone' wants clean air, water and soil...........but then you actually SEE what many people do in the course of their day and apparently we're not all in agreement.

And a lot of those people not doing what is right also happen to be "conservatives."

In fact, "conservatives" seem to be the biggest stumbling block to keeping our soil, air, and water clean.

Seems to me that they should be on the same page as the "liberals" but they're not. I suspect that it's strictly about being adversarial rather than doing what's right. Can't admit that those damn libs actually had a good point!

THAT's your belief, huh?

[Prometheus]

9) The freedom to live as you please and do as you please with your property without interference from the government.

10) The ability of parents to be able to send their children to a school, public or private, that best fits their needs.
I'm weird. I think all laws are government-imposed "rules and regulations."

9: As long as your use of property doesn't interfere with your neighbor's enjoyment of their property, I'm fine with it.

10: As long as the child is following an approved core curriculum of math, language, etc. then sure. Isn't that what we have?

But you won't agree there's currently simply too many laws and regulations?

I think a lot of that boils down to poor planning and bad writing... but mostly poor planning

Golden Rule applies to neighbors.

Isn't that what I just said?

We have public schools that push this notion of a 'well rounded' education instead of that insisting on that core of basic lessons first and foremost. I am guessing you're more impressed with the Chinese school system than the US.

I think you should read my series on Chinese education before you make silly guesses.

The core should be first and foremost. However, when taught correctly, there should actually be plenty of time left over for kids to play sports and learn music and art.

Plenty of industrialized, 1st world countries can do it. If the US is so exceptional, we should be doing it better.

[abbey1227]

May 17, 2021 5:21:54 GMT Prometheus said:

Did you notice that every example I gave was about hurting other people?

Actually hurting them? Or just peoples' impressions and feelings?

God hates fags is no more harmful a saying than Redheads have no souls......... unless you actually buy into the nonsense?

[abbey1227]

May 17, 2021 5:56:35 GMT Prometheus said:

Isn't that what I just said?

I think you should read my series on Chinese education before you make silly guesses.

The core should be first and foremost. However, when taught correctly, there should actually be plenty of time left over for kids to play sports and learn music and art.

Plenty of industrialized, 1st world countries can do it. If the US is so exceptional, we should be doing it better.

The US has not been exceptional in decades.

And no, imo you do not embrace the Golden Rule when it comes to your neighbors. Not when you expect them all to participate to the levels that you believe in.......while excusing a certain segment of them at the same time.

[abbey1227]

May 17, 2021 5:25:48 GMT Prometheus said:

6) An environment where Americans can reap rewards as large as the market is willing to pay for their particular talents, work ethic or unique skills.

Agreed! Bye bye corporations, unions, and stock markets!

I don't even know what you mean by that........aside from a slight at corporations. But unions are needed?

I really mean get rid of them all

How do you get people to invest in business without a stock market of some sort? I'm sure there's something we can agree on there........after getting rid of the unions and corporations.

[Prometheus]

11) The protection of the world’s foremost military and a government that is willing to use it to insure the safety of American citizens.

11- Unlike all the current welfare......... I do feel the Military is an absolute responsibility of the Govt.........but to the extent they're spending? and using it all over the world? I totally disagree with that.

Agreed, but are you willing to move protective assets closer to home even if it means having a defensive disadvantage?

Absolutely. Bring them all home. And if and when some opposing force causes trouble.......THEN go out, actually declare war and spank the shit out of your opponent. Otherwise, you're exceeding the Constitutional requirements of 'providing for the common defense', imo.

Like I said elsewhere: I don't think you understand how fast an ICBM travels.

Other than that, are you willing to let conflicts between other nations continue without our interference even if it's obvious that our interests will eventually be at stake?

I'm not disagreeing with you, here. I'm just to gauge how far back you want to draw our forces and then discuss how much smaller our military really could be. Is there really a need for a dozen super carriers if all they ever do is patrol our coastlines?

[Prometheus]

12) Medicare and Social Security programs that are financially solvent long-term so they can continue to benefit retirees

12) Medicare and SS was the cause of a lot of this dependency thinking.......and the olde folks have become spoiled on it to the extent that they're willing to screw over their own kids and grandkids. Ain't it great?

I'm not sure how the grandparents are screwing anyone over since it's the subsequent generations that pay for the previous ones. I'd ask you to elaborate but my guess is that you simply want to eliminate everything based on some people not following the rules.

On the one hand, it's not necessarily their fault as when the promises made to them, SS and Medicare, were relatively cheap to provide...........but now? Those things have gotten really expensive and the elders are voting to protect them at all costs. It seems similar to the deal the Big 3 made to their Union members back when America was riding high in the late 40s, 50s and part of the 60s.

I hate to point this out to you but both of those programs originally got fucked over and made expensive by people who identify as "conservative."

Liberals trying to keep them solvent has made them even more expensive based on the push-back of conservatives and corporations.

[Prometheus]

13) The freedom for people to speak their minds without being censored by the government

13) Freedom of speech? I don't think it goes nearly far enough anymore. Comics being shamed? Acceptable words only? F dat nonsense. And the Govt now has private corporations doing their bidding as they're in bed together to achieve their agendas.

I think you have that backwards: It's the government doing the will of corporations, not the other way around. Maybe that's why I'm not sure about what speech the government is censoring. Do you want the "Race" options on work applications to read: White, Nigger, Spic, and Gook? Would that make you feel better?

The point being they're totally and blatantly in bed together........when in the past, there was supposed to be this separation between them. no?

Do you really believe there was ever a time in American history when moneyed interests weren't pushing their particular agenda?

All the more reason to fix our education system....

WTF is with you and the racist assumptions? There are good and bad people in all races. That's why race don't mean shit to me........and this critical race theory is letting the inmates at the asylum call all the shots.
Hey, after all these years.......WHY is the Govt still clarifying that stuff? Even gender........ if you're applying for a job, why isn't it simply your SS Number? No need for race, gender or even a surname that might open the door for discrimination.

Maybe it's just that I notice that the people you always seem to complain about are the ones who aren't white.

It gives me pause.

[abbey1227]

May 17, 2021 6:06:14 GMT Prometheus said:

Like I said elsewhere: I don't think you understand how fast an ICBM travels.

Other than that, are you willing to let conflicts between other nations continue without our interference even if it's obvious that our interests will eventually be at stake?

I'm not disagreeing with you, here. I'm just to gauge how far back you want to draw our forces and then discuss how much smaller our military really could be. Is there really a need for a dozen super carriers if all they ever do is patrol our coastlines?

Mach 20..........and? When it comes to nuclear devices, too........what difference does it really make? Once it goes off, aren't we all just toast anyway? Russia's latest missiles supposedly fly 27 times faster than the speed of sound, too.

I'd be the hard-ass if I was calling the shots, though. I wouldn't tolerate 20 year occupations and insane 'rules of engagement'.

As Teddy Roosevelt advised, speak softly.......carry a big stick.

What's the point of that big stick if you're never willing to whack anyone with it? If you won't......don't spend money on it to begin with.

[abbey1227]

May 17, 2021 6:11:08 GMT Prometheus said:

12) Medicare and Social Security programs that are financially solvent long-term so they can continue to benefit retirees

12) Medicare and SS was the cause of a lot of this dependency thinking.......and the olde folks have become spoiled on it to the extent that they're willing to screw over their own kids and grandkids. Ain't it great?

I'm not sure how the grandparents are screwing anyone over since it's the subsequent generations that pay for the previous ones. I'd ask you to elaborate but my guess is that you simply want to eliminate everything based on some people not following the rules.

On the one hand, it's not necessarily their fault as when the promises made to them, SS and Medicare, were relatively cheap to provide...........but now? Those things have gotten really expensive and the elders are voting to protect them at all costs. It seems similar to the deal the Big 3 made to their Union members back when America was riding high in the late 40s, 50s and part of the 60s.

I hate to point this out to you but both of those programs originally got fucked over and made expensive by people who identify as "conservative."

Liberals trying to keep them solvent has made them even more expensive based on the push-back of conservatives and corporations.

How do you keep a Ponzi scheme solvent?

Unless taxing people 50-75% or more is the answer to everything?

[Prometheus]

14) A decent culture so that children have a chance to grow up without being morally corrupted

14) is too vague.........what is moral? I do think we're an over-sexualized country and have been groomed to be nothing but consumers.........but what can you do? Allow freedom or not?

I think this quote goes to the heart of what conservatives want: to be the sole arbiters of what is moral in America and I guarantee that their morality has no place for anyone other than straight, white Christians

Yeah........but is anyone being put in charge any different? You've said it yourself.......most of these groups don't want actual Equality........they want revenge and power to abuse others. Isn't there ever a time that you, as a parent, ask yourself "WTF are they thinking these days?" when it comes to the US Govt or it's many agenda driven operatives? Or am I just an olde curmudgeon unwilling to accept inevitable change 'for the better'?

Everyone approaches life looking through the prism of their own beliefs.

And some of those beliefs are fucking HORRIBLE!!!

Yes. I think that a lot of the activism we see today is based on vengeance. That's why I deplore it. That doesn't mean that I agree with those being fought against.

If the Jews had spent the late 40's and 50's rounding up every German they could lay their hands on and tossing them into ovens, I'd denounce them. It wouldn't mean that I was favoring Nazis. It means that I think genocide is bad no matter who does it.

[Prometheus]

15) A responsible government that keeps order in the streets, protects Americans from crimes, and enforces basic regulations to keep people from being taken advantage of by crooks or unscrupulous businesses.

15) I do agree with some basic laws and consumer protections........but the current levels? Insane. EVERYONE is now a victim and their brains aren't even expected to work anymore......cuz the Govt or it's employees will excuse and protect them?

I do believe the quote is about maintaining the police, FBI, DEA, BATF, etc. But if you don't mind that grandma gave your future inheritance to a Nigerian prince....

Well, I'm not really expecting anything from Gramma, so if she wants a Nigerian Sugar Baby, that's her business.
As far as the FBI, DEA and BATF? More than willing to scrap a good portion of them and their dealings. Like most things Govt, they've grown too large and too intrusive.

And you still don't understand why I keep making the "baby and the bath water" comment....

[abbey1227]

May 17, 2021 6:16:15 GMT Prometheus said:

Do you really believe there was ever a time in American history when moneyed interests weren't pushing their particular agenda?

All the more reason to fix our education system....

Maybe it's just that I notice that the people you always seem to complain about are the ones who aren't white.

It gives me pause.

How can that be? IF the majority on welfare in the US are white.......and I complain about welfare......then?

If I see Medicare and Social Security as massive and wasteful programs......and again, the majority of people on those are elderly white people.......then?

If I have favored LEGAL immigration over Illegal.........and the vast majority of legal immigrants are brown and black people.......... then?

And I have clarified on more than one occasion that when it comes to Illegals, I don't care if they come from Russia, Ireland, Australia, Mexico, Brazil, China, etc etc etc...... I have no tolerance for any of them. And they should face the same harsh treatment across the board, imo

The pause you give me is you seem to totally buy into the 'conservative person = racist, xenophobic, sexist, homophobic, etc etc.........and that just ain't me.

Sure, I'll joke and push the line on all of those subjects........but I am about as progressive as can be expected from someone who also happens to believe in fiscal conservatism. So when I gripe about the push of transgenderism....... it's NOT about some guy wanting to part with his winkie and live like a woman....... it's just that I feel that's totally his/her choice as an adult and he/she should pay for it without expecting anyone else to.

[Prometheus]

16) The ability for women to achieve their fullest potential, whether that’s by being a corporate CEO, opening their own business or staying at home as a full time mom.

17) A country where people are judged by the content of their character, not the color of their skin.

16) is a Given........I believe in equal opportunity for all Americans. Not equal results, though. And I'd do away with Title IX in a heartbeat. Same goes for 17.

So, we're back to: "I believe in equal rights except for people I don't like!"?
I really don't get how you're reading that into what I wrote?

My wife, for instance, has been given opportunities and advancements the same as anyone else willing to work as hard as she did. If she were another color, I don't believe that would alter her attitude or approach.

But you specifically mentioned Title IX....

[abbey1227]

May 17, 2021 6:24:24 GMT Prometheus said:

Everyone approaches life looking through the prism of their own beliefs.

And some of those beliefs are fucking HORRIBLE!!!

Yes. I think that a lot of the activism we see today is based on vengeance. That's why I deplore it. That doesn't mean that I agree with those being fought against.

If the Jews had spent the late 40's and 50's rounding up every German they could lay their hands on and tossing them into ovens, I'd denounce them. It wouldn't mean that I was favoring Nazis. It means that I think genocide is bad no matter who does it.

You don't have to agree with them. Just be tolerant of all, right? 

Of course. And I won't be holding Germans born after the 40s responsible for the actions of their ancestors.

Though, I do recall a few callous remarks you've made about Jews whenever the subject of Seinfeld came up?     But I just took it as you being funny.

[Prometheus]

18) Low taxes, so that Americans get to keep more of their hard earned money instead of sending it to the government.

18) There should absolutely be a MAXIMUM amount of taxes the Govt can expect from anyone......and I happen to think it should be 20% or lower for all. If they can't get it done with that amount, then they should sharpen their pencils and start learning to get by on less.
And I think you're a fool who probably thinks that "supply and demand" is the end all and be all of economics. I suggest you start with "An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations" by Adam Smith (only about 1300 pages) before you talk about economics again.

I'll give you props for the notion that the government should learn how to get by with less. Odd how you didn't extend that caveat to corporations....

Again, all these years and arguments later....... you somehow believe I favor corporate welfare? F 'em. Let them fail or succeed on their own.
I don't however believe that people like Obama or Krugman and especially Biden know a GD thing about how successful economics work.

And I still think that YOU don't understand how economics work at all... and I'm more of a von Mises guy.

[abbey1227]

May 17, 2021 6:28:00 GMT Prometheus said:

16) The ability for women to achieve their fullest potential, whether that’s by being a corporate CEO, opening their own business or staying at home as a full time mom.

17) A country where people are judged by the content of their character, not the color of their skin.

16) is a Given........I believe in equal opportunity for all Americans. Not equal results, though. And I'd do away with Title IX in a heartbeat. Same goes for 17.

So, we're back to: "I believe in equal rights except for people I don't like!"?
I really don't get how you're reading that into what I wrote?

My wife, for instance, has been given opportunities and advancements the same as anyone else willing to work as hard as she did. If she were another color, I don't believe that would alter her attitude or approach.

But you specifically mentioned Title IX....

Ummm, YEAH! Because just like Affirmative Action........it starts out with the best of intentions........but in reality, all it does it ruin some perfectly good things in the name of 'fairness'.

You know how many mens sports (that actually had fans and followings) were scrapped because they couldn't provide matching funds for females?  And the WNBA is still living off the NBA after all this time?

I believe in equal opportunity.......is some Spud Webb-like female comes along and can dribble better than her opponents, she gets a spot on an NBA team. But to expect equal funding for girls sports when 1. Girls don't seem to gravitate to sports nearly to the extend as the guys and 2. the paying fans don't either.

And that's without even bringing up the argument of whether or not highschools and colleges should even be IN the business of sports, right? It's called extracurricular, right?

And can you think of any areas where there seems to be a great deal of money, fraud, corruption and in general evil shenanigans going on within the educational system? IIRC, about 30 States' highest paid employee is actually the Head Coach at their schools. 

[Prometheus]

19) A country where everyone from the President of the United to States to the humblest citizen has to obey the same laws or face the same potential penalties for breaking those laws.

I hope the original author put his money where his mouth was and denounced Donnie Dimwit at every turn and screamed for his impeachment and removal.

Yeah, compared to every other president........Donnie sure was a bad influence in DC.

Yeah, Abbey. He was. Based on this list - and this list alone - Trump was the worst sort of "conservative" and an obvious sub-par human being.

[abbey1227]

May 17, 2021 6:32:14 GMT Prometheus said:

And I still think that YOU don't understand how economics work at all... and I'm more of a von Mises guy.

You completely have me in the education, global experiences and theory department. I'll totally give you that.

But my only claim is that in my own small way, I've repeatedly done what many expert economists and politicians insist just isn't possible. And I disagree totally.

My wife was just watching yet another 'Leftist' Netflix documentary  type series called Explained........one was on college loans and the other on retirement......and for the first time she heard that stat about the typical American not being able to come up with $400 in an emergency. Her only response was "WTH are most people thinking and doing?"

And all of the irresponsible and ridiculous 'victims' they provide in these pieces doesn't help much. $80,000 in a graduate degree? And you took it all out in loans? Then ignored how the interest and penalties add up for non-compliance? Sorry, aren't these people supposed to be the smarter and more educated types?

They even had Illhan Omar insisting that student loans absolutely held her back from earlier success........ while completely glossing over the fact that she'd had 3 children before even graduating? Oh, yeah.......she's a real Brainiac.

[abbey1227]

May 17, 2021 6:36:29 GMT Prometheus said:

Yeah, Abbey. He was. Based on this list - and this list alone - Trump was the worst sort of "conservative" and an obvious sub-par human being.

Then how was it he was able to deliver on several things that 'real' conservatives have failed on for decades? Even Ronnie Reagan is looking pale in comparison at this point.

Leave all of the obnoxious tweets and childish taunts he engaged in out of it. How is it so many are displeased with the current GOP? And favored Donnie over them?

Maybe even limit it to just the black and brown people that voted for him in 2020 compared to any other GOP candidate in well over 50 years?