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Post by Prometheus on Apr 13, 2021 5:16:44 GMT
Different strokes. Open carry doesn't bother me... except in a school. Yeah, we generally take for granted the environment we were raised in. It's only as we get older and become aware of other people raised in other environments that we might think about it more. I definitely notice when the Chinese police are armed... not armored car guards, but the police. It's so rare that it catches you by surprise. |
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Post by abbey1227 on Apr 13, 2021 5:20:20 GMT
In Australia, whether someone is open-carrying or concealing a firearm, it's a problem... If I visited America and encountered someone open carrying, I'd probably find it very confronting. However, that doesn't mean I'd necessarily freak out or "lose my shit" over it. |
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Post by ant-mac on Apr 13, 2021 5:35:41 GMT
Yeah, we generally take for granted the environment we were raised in. It's only as we get older and become aware of other people raised in other environments that we might think about it more. I definitely notice when the Chinese police are armed... not armored car guards, but the police. It's so rare that it catches you by surprise. I think Aussie cops are pretty much armed all the time, although there are exceptions. However, this wasn't always the case. I suppose it's a case of moving with the times. |
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Post by ant-mac on Apr 13, 2021 5:36:33 GMT
In Australia, whether someone is open-carrying or concealing a firearm, it's a problem... If I visited America and encountered someone open carrying, I'd probably find it very confronting. However, that doesn't mean I'd necessarily freak out or "lose my shit" over it. That still won't protect him from the manure. |
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Post by abbey1227 on Apr 13, 2021 5:45:51 GMT
I think Aussie cops are pretty much armed all the time, although there are exceptions. However, this wasn't always the case. I suppose it's a case of moving with the times.
That's just it...... unless the criminals agree to give up all of their weapons.......... how do you ever figure the cops, or the citizens, should agree to disarm?
I don't think cops are any better or more deserving of life than you.
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Post by ant-mac on Apr 13, 2021 6:07:41 GMT
I think Aussie cops are pretty much armed all the time, although there are exceptions. However, this wasn't always the case. I suppose it's a case of moving with the times.
That's just it...... unless the criminals agree to give up all of their weapons.......... how do you ever figure the cops, or the citizens, should agree to disarm?
I don't think cops are any better or more deserving of life than you.
That doesn't really seem to be the issue. It just that societal norms and expectations have changed... Gun laws in Australia are predominantly within the jurisdiction of Australian states and territories, with the importation of guns regulated by the federal government. Following several high-profile killing sprees, the federal government coordinated more restrictive firearms legislation with all state governments. Gun laws were largely aligned in 1996 by the National Firearms Agreement. In two federally funded gun buybacks and voluntary surrenders and State Governments' gun amnesties before and after the Port Arthur Massacre were collected and destroyed, more than one million firearms, possibly one third of the national stock. A person must have a firearm licence to possess or use a firearm. Licence holders must demonstrate a "genuine reason", which does not include self-defence, for holding a firearm licence and must not be a "prohibited person". All firearms must be registered by serial number to the owner, who must also hold a firearms licence. |
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Post by abbey1227 on Apr 13, 2021 6:19:18 GMT
That doesn't really seem to be the issue. It just that societal norms and expectations have changed... Gun laws in Australia are predominantly within the jurisdiction of Australian states and territories, with the importation of guns regulated by the federal government. Following several high-profile killing sprees, the federal government coordinated more restrictive firearms legislation with all state governments. Gun laws were largely aligned in 1996 by the National Firearms Agreement. In two federally funded gun buybacks and voluntary surrenders and State Governments' gun amnesties before and after the Port Arthur Massacre were collected and destroyed, more than one million firearms, possibly one third of the national stock. A person must have a firearm licence to possess or use a firearm. Licence holders must demonstrate a "genuine reason", which does not include self-defence, for holding a firearm licence and must not be a "prohibited person". All firearms must be registered by serial number to the owner, who must also hold a firearms licence.
Voluntary, huh? Seems like misuse of that word.
Rights? Self-preservation? Self-defense? Those aren't legitimate enough reasons?
Trust me, Mac..... I understand the outsider's view on gun deaths here........it's a matter of priorities and opinion. I just lean the other direction when it comes to individual freedoms......versus Govt overstepping. There are thousands of lives I could easily and demonstrably save with dictatorial powers over others, too........but those pesky personal choices and rights of others get in the way there, too.
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Post by ant-mac on Apr 13, 2021 6:54:32 GMT
That doesn't really seem to be the issue. It just that societal norms and expectations have changed... Gun laws in Australia are predominantly within the jurisdiction of Australian states and territories, with the importation of guns regulated by the federal government. Following several high-profile killing sprees, the federal government coordinated more restrictive firearms legislation with all state governments. Gun laws were largely aligned in 1996 by the National Firearms Agreement. In two federally funded gun buybacks and voluntary surrenders and State Governments' gun amnesties before and after the Port Arthur Massacre were collected and destroyed, more than one million firearms, possibly one third of the national stock. A person must have a firearm licence to possess or use a firearm. Licence holders must demonstrate a "genuine reason", which does not include self-defence, for holding a firearm licence and must not be a "prohibited person". All firearms must be registered by serial number to the owner, who must also hold a firearms licence.
Voluntary, huh? Seems like misuse of that word.
Rights? Self-preservation? Self-defense? Those aren't legitimate enough reasons?
Trust me, Mac..... I understand the outsider's view on gun deaths here........it's a matter of priorities and opinion. I just lean the other direction when it comes to individual freedoms......versus Govt overstepping. There are thousands of lives I could easily and demonstrably save with dictatorial powers over others, too........but those pesky personal choices and rights of others get in the way there, too.
1. No, that's an entirely accurate use of the word. If the owner chose not to voluntarily surrender their firearm, the authorities might never know of its existence. Of course, if they are later caught in possession of an unregistered or illegal firearm, or without a licence, they only have themselves to blame. 2. Not in Australia... because it's rarely an issue. Our gun culture differs from America's. 3. I live in a democracy and have never felt that my "freedoms or rights" have been stepped on. Indeed, I feel the government should play a much greater role in society... and actually earn their perks and wages. And I keep hearing people blather on endlessly about their rights, but I never hear them mention their responsibilities. |
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Post by abbey1227 on Apr 13, 2021 7:01:50 GMT
1. No, that's an entirely accurate use of the word. If the owner chose not to voluntarily surrender their firearm, the authorities might never know of its existence. Of course, if they are later caught in possession of an unregistered or illegal firearm, or without a licence, they only have themselves to blame. 2. Not in Australia... because it's rarely an issue. Our gun culture differs from America's. 3. I live in a democracy and have never felt that my "freedoms or rights" have been stepped on. Indeed, I feel the government should play a much greater role in society... and actually earn their perks and wages. And I keep hearing people blather on endlessly about their rights, but I never hear them mention their responsibilities.
1. So you've automatically made criminals of formerly legal gun owners........because they didn't 'voluntarily' comply?
2. It does differ....... but only because of the reaction to gun violence. You banned guns over the death of how many in one event? That's often just a weekend in Chicago or elsewhere......and if it's not involving a white guy, it doesn't even get much mention in the news here.
3. You're a male....... likely one who's never been raped, assaulted or just robbed. Then hear me on this....... everyone has the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. They also have the responsibility for their actions should they misuse a gun. I'm not blaming the guns. I expect better from individuals. I do not expect better the larger MY govt gets. But I'm just going by decades of observed behavior.
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Post by ant-mac on Apr 13, 2021 7:26:18 GMT
1. No, that's an entirely accurate use of the word. If the owner chose not to voluntarily surrender their firearm, the authorities might never know of its existence. Of course, if they are later caught in possession of an unregistered or illegal firearm, or without a licence, they only have themselves to blame. 2. Not in Australia... because it's rarely an issue. Our gun culture differs from America's. 3. I live in a democracy and have never felt that my "freedoms or rights" have been stepped on. Indeed, I feel the government should play a much greater role in society... and actually earn their perks and wages. And I keep hearing people blather on endlessly about their rights, but I never hear them mention their responsibilities.
1. So you've automatically made criminals of formerly legal gun owners........because they didn't 'voluntarily' comply?
2. It does differ....... but only because of the reaction to gun violence. You banned guns over the death of how many in one event? That's often just a weekend in Chicago or elsewhere......and if it's not involving a white guy, it doesn't even get much mention in the news here.
3. You're a male....... likely one who's never been raped, assaulted or just robbed. Then hear me on this....... everyone has the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. They also have the responsibility for their actions should they misuse a gun. I'm not blaming the guns. I expect better from individuals. I do not expect better the larger MY govt gets. But I'm just going by decades of observed behavior.
1. What makes you automatically think they were formerly - if ever - legal gun owners? 2. I think the event you refer to involved 35 fatalities. However, the tightening of the gun laws was in response to a string of fatal events in the preceding decade or so. 3. I've been assaulted... once in public in my youth and once in Family Court by a former "brother-in-law"... I reported the former incident to the police and the latter incident was witnessed and was recorded on security camera. It greatly helped my cause at Family Court, I received money for any injuries and my assailant had a criminal conviction recorded against him. Technically, I've also been robbed and I've also encountered one or two girls who didn't ask permission before...  And we also have the "right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness", but we just do it with less guns. |
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Post by abbey1227 on Apr 13, 2021 7:52:42 GMT
1. What makes you automatically think they were formerly - if ever - legal gun owners? 2. I think the event you refer to involved 35 fatalities. However, the tightening of the gun laws was in response to a string of fatal events in the preceding decade or so. 3. I've been assaulted... once in public in my youth and once in Family Court by a former "brother-in-law"... I reported the former incident to the police and the latter incident was witnessed and was recorded on security camera. It greatly helped my cause at Family Court, I received money for any injuries and my assailant had a criminal conviction recorded against him. Technically, I've also been robbed and I've also encountered one or two girls who didn't ask permission before... And we also have the "right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness", but we just do it with less guns.
1. The legal gun owners would become illegal. The illegal gun owners were already illegal without a new gun ban......and they're likely just as unwilling to voluntarily comply afterwards. Most of the gun deaths every weekend in the US are pulled off by people who are not legal gun owners. I'm not sure you've been made fully aware of this?
2. The numbers do not make a difference to me as a matter of principle. Line up a thousand wee ones and fire away. Won't change my opinion. Sorry.
3. I yearn for the days of 'mutual combatants' and it not being too big a deal. Not that I ever went out of my way to look for trouble after becoming an adult. I certainly didn't want to involve the police after I taught one pair of idiots a lesson in a parking lot.....nor cause them future legal problems.
We should trade our 'sexual assault' stories sometimes over a Pepsi and some tears. 
Lots of people never get that opportunity after a violent criminal deprives them of their life......izzall I'm saying. I wish for everyone to have the right to choose, to protect them and theirs should the need ever arise.
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Post by ant-mac on Apr 13, 2021 8:16:14 GMT
1. What makes you automatically think they were formerly - if ever - legal gun owners? 2. I think the event you refer to involved 35 fatalities. However, the tightening of the gun laws was in response to a string of fatal events in the preceding decade or so. 3. I've been assaulted... once in public in my youth and once in Family Court by a former "brother-in-law"... I reported the former incident to the police and the latter incident was witnessed and was recorded on security camera. It greatly helped my cause at Family Court, I received money for any injuries and my assailant had a criminal conviction recorded against him. Technically, I've also been robbed and I've also encountered one or two girls who didn't ask permission before... And we also have the "right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness", but we just do it with less guns.
1. The legal gun owners would become illegal. The illegal gun owners were already illegal without a new gun ban......and they're likely just as unwilling to voluntarily comply afterwards. Most of the gun deaths every weekend in the US are pulled off by people who are not legal gun owners. I'm not sure you've been made fully aware of this?
2. The numbers do not make a difference to me as a matter of principle. Line up a thousand wee ones and fire away. Won't change my opinion. Sorry.
3. I yearn for the days of 'mutual combatants' and it not being too big a deal. Not that I ever went out of my way to look for trouble after becoming an adult. I certainly didn't want to involve the police after I taught one pair of idiots a lesson in a parking lot.....nor cause them future legal problems.
We should trade our 'sexual assault' stories sometimes over a Pepsi and some tears.
Lots of people never get that opportunity after a violent criminal deprives them of their life......izzall I'm saying. I wish for everyone to have the right to choose, to protect them and theirs should the need ever arise.
1. Not if they abided by the law set down by the federal and state governments and supported by the vast majority of the Australian population. Any formerly illegal gun owners may simply have increased the illegality of their situation. It was pretty much the situation I expected. 2. No, I was just tidying up the conversation for the sake of casual lurkers. 3. I was not yet an adult when the first assault took place. I know I was too young to have a driver's licence, which is something you could get back then when you turned 16. Technically, I was an adult when the second assault took place, but these days, I avoid being an adult every chance I get. At one stage, I had a brief career as a weekend warrior - someone who got into fights on the weekend - but I could see there was no future to it. I'll tell you mine if you'll tell me yours... Although I might have an apple juice instead. Then it would appear that the ability to own a gun did them no good. |
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Post by abbey1227 on Apr 13, 2021 8:41:56 GMT
1. Not if they abided by the law set down by the federal and state governments and supported by the vast majority of the Australian population. Any formerly illegal gun owners may simply have increased the illegality of their situation. It was pretty much the situation I expected. 2. No, I was just tidying up the conversation for the sake of casual lurkers. 3. I was not yet an adult when the first assault took place. I know I was too young to have a driver's licence, which is something you could get back then when you turned 16. Technically, I was an adult when the second assault took place, but these days, I avoid being an adult every chance I get. At one stage, I had a brief career as a weekend warrior - someone who got into fights on the weekend - but I could see there was no future to it. I'll tell you mine if you'll tell me yours... Although I might have an apple juice instead. Then it would appear that the ability to own a gun did them no good.
1. That's the funny thing about perpetual criminals, they don't seem to abide by the law.
2. It's refreshing of late to be able to converse in a civil manner on one of the core political arguments in the US.
3. You probably avoided some troubles.......my license at 16 led to many citations and brushes with law enforcement.......my fault, mostly.
Preachin' to the choir. I avoid adultiness as much as possible, as well.
I was referring to the victims who have been denied access to gun ownership......or were convinced by others that they'd never have a need, cuz the police are just minutes away. Google the Luby's massacre sometime
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Post by Prometheus on Apr 13, 2021 8:45:18 GMT
1. So you've automatically made criminals of formerly legal gun owners........because they didn't 'voluntarily' comply?
2. It does differ....... but only because of the reaction to gun violence. You banned guns over the death of how many in one event? That's often just a weekend in Chicago or elsewhere......and if it's not involving a white guy, it doesn't even get much mention in the news here.
3. You're a male....... likely one who's never been raped, assaulted or just robbed. Then hear me on this....... everyone has the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. They also have the responsibility for their actions should they misuse a gun. I'm not blaming the guns. I expect better from individuals. I do not expect better the larger MY govt gets. But I'm just going by decades of observed behavior.
1. What makes you automatically think they were formerly - if ever - legal gun owners? 2. I think the event you refer to involved 35 fatalities. However, the tightening of the gun laws was in response to a string of fatal events in the preceding decade or so. 3. I've been assaulted... once in public in my youth and once in Family Court by a former "brother-in-law"... I reported the former incident to the police and the latter incident was witnessed and was recorded on security camera. It greatly helped my cause at Family Court, I received money for any injuries and my assailant had a criminal conviction recorded against him. Technically, I've also been robbed and I've also encountered one or two girls who didn't ask permission before... And we also have the "right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness", but we just do it with less guns. Fewer |
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Post by ant-mac on Apr 13, 2021 8:48:59 GMT
1. What makes you automatically think they were formerly - if ever - legal gun owners? 2. I think the event you refer to involved 35 fatalities. However, the tightening of the gun laws was in response to a string of fatal events in the preceding decade or so. 3. I've been assaulted... once in public in my youth and once in Family Court by a former "brother-in-law"... I reported the former incident to the police and the latter incident was witnessed and was recorded on security camera. It greatly helped my cause at Family Court, I received money for any injuries and my assailant had a criminal conviction recorded against him. Technically, I've also been robbed and I've also encountered one or two girls who didn't ask permission before... And we also have the "right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness", but we just do it with less guns. Fewer Thanks, teach! PS - You forgot the period. Punctuation is important. |
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Post by ant-mac on Apr 13, 2021 8:57:49 GMT
1. Not if they abided by the law set down by the federal and state governments and supported by the vast majority of the Australian population. Any formerly illegal gun owners may simply have increased the illegality of their situation. It was pretty much the situation I expected. 2. No, I was just tidying up the conversation for the sake of casual lurkers. 3. I was not yet an adult when the first assault took place. I know I was too young to have a driver's licence, which is something you could get back then when you turned 16. Technically, I was an adult when the second assault took place, but these days, I avoid being an adult every chance I get. At one stage, I had a brief career as a weekend warrior - someone who got into fights on the weekend - but I could see there was no future to it. I'll tell you mine if you'll tell me yours... Although I might have an apple juice instead. Then it would appear that the ability to own a gun did them no good.
1. That's the funny thing about perpetual criminals, they don't seem to abide by the law.
2. It's refreshing of late to be able to converse in a civil manner on one of the core political arguments in the US.
3. You probably avoided some troubles.......my license at 16 led to many citations and brushes with law enforcement.......my fault, mostly.
Preachin' to the choir. I avoid adultiness as much as possible, as well.
I was referring to the victims who have been denied access to gun ownership......or were convinced by others that they'd never have a need, cuz the police are just minutes away. Google the Luby's massacre sometime
1. Yes, anybody would think they don't respect law and order. 2. Well, if everybody is too busy yelling at the top of their voices, nobody will hear anything that's said. 3. Oh, I got my licence when I turned 16... eventually. And like you, I had my fair share of interactions with representatives of the law. I simply used that "mile-marker" as a reference to the fact I was still a minor when I was assaulted the first time. 4. People sometimes ask if I've entered my second childhood... I wasn't aware that I'd left my first one. 5. Gun ownership brings its own dangers... including accidental injury and death. A gun is like COVID... it doesn't make allowances or exceptions for the stupid or unlucky. |
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Post by Prometheus on Apr 13, 2021 9:16:57 GMT
I definitely notice when the Chinese police are armed... not armored car guards, but the police. It's so rare that it catches you by surprise. I think Aussie cops are pretty much armed all the time, although there are exceptions. However, this wasn't always the case. I suppose it's a case of moving with the times. A statistic often overlooked in the US - and purposefully avoided by the anti-gun crowd - is that only about 3% of all murders in the US are committed with a legally owned weapon in the hands of its legal owner, yet almost all of the legislation and ire is aimed at the 97% of legal gun owners who have never done a damn thing wrong. It's like banning scissors in all primary schools just because one little boy cut off girl's pigtail.
The murder rate in the US skyrocketed in 2020 to levels not seen since the late 80's/early 90's, yet that 3% figure stayed consistent. I'm all for better background checks and proper licensing and training, but I do balk at the notion of registering all weapons. If my license is good and my background check comes back clean, there's really no reason for anyone to know how many weapons I own, but if the only other option is a ban, then register away. And rather than make two posts, I'll comment on something else you said: Personal defense is absolutely a valid reason in my mind for being allowed to carry a weapon, but - as you pointed out - the culture is very different in Oz from the US. I feel there is a much larger threat factor in the US. If I lived in Oz, I might feel differently. Here in China, I can walk down a dark alley a 3 AM and never feel a hint of anxiety. In the US, there are places where you feel the anxiety walking down a well-lit, main thoroughfare at 7 PM. ![[giveup]](//storage.proboards.com/7182076/images/FSYefibmKqtatIXMgHZg.gif)
Thing is, I'm not scared of the legal gun owners. I'm scared of the illegal gun owners. I'd rather be strapped with a weapon than wrapped in a body bag.
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Post by Prometheus on Apr 13, 2021 9:18:01 GMT
Thanks, teach! PS - You forgot the period. Punctuation is important. As an intentional fragment, no punctuation is required. |
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Post by abbey1227 on Apr 13, 2021 9:22:39 GMT
In the US, there are places where you feel the anxiety walking down a well-lit, main thoroughfare at 7 AM.
Thing is, I'm not scared of the legal gun owners. I'm scared of the illegal gun owners. I'd rather be strapped with a weapon than wrapped in a body bag.
FIFY
I often wonder why our media doesn't do a real expose on just such areas?
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Post by ant-mac on Apr 13, 2021 9:30:29 GMT
I think Aussie cops are pretty much armed all the time, although there are exceptions. However, this wasn't always the case. I suppose it's a case of moving with the times. A statistic often overlooked in the US - and purposefully avoided by the anti-gun crowd - is that only about 3% of all murders in the US are committed with a legally owned weapon in the hands of its legal owner, yet almost all of the legislation and ire is aimed at the 97% of legal gun owners who have never done a damn thing wrong. It's like banning scissors in all primary schools just because one little boy cut off girl's pigtail.
The murder rate in the US skyrocketed in 2020 to levels not seen since the late 80's/early 90's, yet that 3% figure stayed consistent. I'm all for better background checks and proper licensing and training, but I do balk at the notion of registering all weapons. If my license is good and my background check comes back clean, there's really no reason for anyone to know how many weapons I own, but if the only other option is a ban, then register away. And rather than make two posts, I'll comment on something else you said: Personal defense is absolutely a valid reason in my mind for being allowed to carry a weapon, but - as you pointed out - the culture is very different in Oz from the US. I feel there is a much larger threat factor in the US. If I lived in Oz, I might feel differently. Here in China, I can walk down a dark alley a 3 AM and never feel a hint of anxiety. In the US, there are places where you feel the anxiety walking down a well-lit, main thoroughfare at 7 PM.
Thing is, I'm not scared of the legal gun owners. I'm scared of the illegal gun owners. I'd rather be strapped with a weapon than wrapped in a body bag.
1. The trouble with legal gun owners is that you never know which 3% will turn bad until it's too late. 2. Damn fools, don't they know how dangerous COVID is?  3. Oh yeah? I bet at least 3% of other gun owners probably agree with you. 4. You might, but the Australian federal and state governments don't... and neither do the vast majority of Australian citizens. I've never felt under threat while walking down an alley in the dark in Australia... of course, I'd definitely feel different about it if I was in the US. 5. Maybe you should be... at least where 3% of them are concerned.  |
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Jun 1, 2022 23:27:03 GMT