They'll Likely Screw This One Up, Too

[abbey1227]

The IRS has a big opportunity to fix the way Americans file taxes
You shouldn’t need TurboTax to file your taxes. The IRS can and should make its own service.
By Dylan [e-mail] Aug 13, 2021

www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/22596072/irs-turbotax-hr-block-free-file-tax-return

A world without tax returns

The IRS could also go a step further from just free filing and experiment with pre-filled returns, an idea that has been floating around tax policy circles for decades.

The actual work of doing your taxes mostly involves rifling through various IRS forms you get in the mail. There are W-2s listing your wages, 1099s showing miscellaneous income like from one-off gigs, etc. The main advantage of TurboTax is that it can import these forms automatically and spare you this step.

But here’s the thing about the forms: The IRS gets them, too. When Vox Media sent me a W-2 telling me how much it paid me in 2020, it sent an identical one to the IRS. When my bank sent me a 1099 telling my wife and me how much interest we earned on our savings account in 2020, it also sent one to the IRS. If I’m not itemizing deductions (like 70 percent of taxpayers), the IRS has all the information it needs to calculate my taxes, send me a filled-out return, and let me either send it right back to the IRS if I’m comfortable with their version or else do my taxes by hand if I prefer.

This isn’t a purely hypothetical proposal. Countries like Denmark, Sweden, Estonia, Chile, and Spain already offer ”pre-populated returns” to their citizens. California experimented with a version called ReadyReturn before it was shut down under pressure from H&R Block and Intuit.

Olson notes that an RFP from the IRS could demand that a free-file option enable pre-filled returns or, at the absolute least, automatically import forms that have been sent to the IRS associated with your or a family member’s Social Security number.

=====================================================

MOST Americans shouldn't have to file taxes the old way. The IRS knows everything it needs to know already.

[merh]

From 2017

[Prometheus]

merh, I remember seeing that video way back when and I think I even posted it on v2 at some point

abbey1227, See? It's not the government fucking us because they're incompetent. It's the corporations paying them to fuck us.

Is government the problem or the corporations?

Let's ban lobbying ad find out.

[abbey1227]

Aug 23, 2021 4:29:32 GMT Prometheus said:

merh , I remember seeing that video way back when and I think I even posted it on v2 at some point

abbey1227 , See? It's not the government fucking us because they're incompetent. It's the corporations paying them to fuck us.

Is government the problem or the corporations?

Let's ban lobbying ad find out.

Since the corporations have no way to force me to do business with them.........except when they use the force of Govt....... I'd have to still go with Govt. 

Let's do that.

Somehow I think that's yet another thing most Americans can agree on.......but their representatives will continue to ignore them. They know better, doncha know

[Prometheus]

Aug 23, 2021 8:56:07 GMT abbey1227 said:

Aug 23, 2021 4:29:32 GMT Prometheus said:

merh , I remember seeing that video way back when and I think I even posted it on v2 at some point

abbey1227 , See? It's not the government fucking us because they're incompetent. It's the corporations paying them to fuck us.

Is government the problem or the corporations?

Let's ban lobbying ad find out.

Since the corporations have no way to force me to do business with them.........except when they use the force of Govt....... I'd have to still go with Govt. 

Let's do that.

Somehow I think that's yet another thing most Americans can agree on.......but their representatives will continue to ignore them. They know better, doncha know

1. The puppet is the problem and not the guy with his fingers on the strings?

Using the government is EXACTLY how they are forcing you to do business with them.

2. Vote them out.

[abbey1227]

Aug 24, 2021 1:46:40 GMT Prometheus said:

1. The puppet is the problem and not the guy with his fingers on the strings?

Using the government is EXACTLY how they are forcing you to do business with them.

2. Vote them out.

I could see where one might compare the Govt to a gun and the lobbyists to the shooter in this case.

Just not sure it computes the same for me   

I've stopped doing business with more than one business over the years........and it didn't bother me in the slightest when they became extinct.

If only Sears had lobbied the Govt to make us all by their tools and appliances.

[Prometheus]

Aug 24, 2021 2:04:02 GMT abbey1227 said:

Aug 24, 2021 1:46:40 GMT Prometheus said:

1. The puppet is the problem and not the guy with his fingers on the strings?

Using the government is EXACTLY how they are forcing you to do business with them.

2. Vote them out.

I could see where one might compare the Govt to a gun and the lobbyists to the shooter in this case.

Just not sure it computes the same for me   

I've stopped doing business with more than one business over the years........and it didn't bother me in the slightest when they became extinct.

If only Sears had lobbied the Govt to make us all by their tools and appliances.

"Finance is a gun. Politics is knowing when to pull the trigger."

When the guy with the gun has the ear of the guy making the decisions, you get a lot of dead bodies.

[abbey1227]

Aug 24, 2021 3:22:58 GMT Prometheus said:

Aug 24, 2021 2:04:02 GMT abbey1227 said:

"Finance is a gun. Politics is knowing when to pull the trigger."

When the guy with the gun has the ear of the guy making the decisions, you get a lot of dead bodies.

I think we've circled right back to a position where people are more in charge of their own decisions.

And that will lead to the argument over how best to get to that

Embracing capitalism, imo....... is getting to the point where you aren't reliant on others for those finances........as much as possible, of course.

[Prometheus]

Aug 24, 2021 5:48:58 GMT abbey1227 said:

Aug 24, 2021 3:22:58 GMT Prometheus said:

"Finance is a gun. Politics is knowing when to pull the trigger."

When the guy with the gun has the ear of the guy making the decisions, you get a lot of dead bodies.

I think we've circled right back to a position where people are more in charge of their own decisions.

And that will lead to the argument over how best to get to that

Embracing capitalism, imo....... is getting to the point where you aren't reliant on others for those finances........as much as possible, of course.

I agree that capitalism is the best option, so I still wonder how you can champion corporations.

[abbey1227]

Aug 24, 2021 11:27:35 GMT Prometheus said:

Aug 24, 2021 5:48:58 GMT abbey1227 said:

I think we've circled right back to a position where people are more in charge of their own decisions.

And that will lead to the argument over how best to get to that

Embracing capitalism, imo....... is getting to the point where you aren't reliant on others for those finances........as much as possible, of course.

I agree that capitalism is the best option, so I still wonder how you can champion corporations.

it's likely I'm failing to see the threat the way you are?   Or that I'm just picking one side over the other, even though I may not be totally in love with the side I'm picking

I believe we've both repeatedly agreed that co-op situations seem like the best scenario for workplaces. Totally voluntary participation and the workers suffer and benefit collectively depending on how well the business does.

[Prometheus]

Aug 24, 2021 11:38:22 GMT abbey1227 said:

Aug 24, 2021 11:27:35 GMT Prometheus said:

I agree that capitalism is the best option, so I still wonder how you can champion corporations.

it's likely I'm failing to see the threat the way you are?   Or that I'm just picking one side over the other, even though I may not be totally in love with the side I'm picking

I believe we've both repeatedly agreed that co-op situations seem like the best scenario for workplaces. Totally voluntary participation and the workers suffer and benefit collectively depending on how well the business does.

You're choosing corporations... collectivism over capitalism.

[abbey1227]

Aug 25, 2021 2:00:20 GMT Prometheus said:

Aug 24, 2021 11:38:22 GMT abbey1227 said:

it's likely I'm failing to see the threat the way you are?   Or that I'm just picking one side over the other, even though I may not be totally in love with the side I'm picking

I believe we've both repeatedly agreed that co-op situations seem like the best scenario for workplaces. Totally voluntary participation and the workers suffer and benefit collectively depending on how well the business does.

You're choosing corporations... collectivism over capitalism.

So the easy solution is to demand a dissolution of corporations .....not ending capitalism.   

[Prometheus]

Aug 25, 2021 2:35:42 GMT abbey1227 said:

Aug 25, 2021 2:00:20 GMT Prometheus said:

You're choosing corporations... collectivism over capitalism.

So the easy solution is to demand a dissolution of corporations .....not ending capitalism.   

It's not an "easy solution" but one that I have touted over and over again.

To me, capitalism is about agreeable (good faith) exchange whether it be money for goods/services or wages for work. Corporations - by their collectivist nature - have undue leverage. Add in the fact that corporations are allowed to influence the political landscape with lobbyists then "good faith" is out the window.

In the TV show, "The West Wing" there was this thing brought up a couple of times: a day where all of the "crazies" were allowed to come in and talk up their plans. Some of the plans were a bit outlandish, but some had a shred of merit and we would see some member of the staff try to pursue making it a reality. The reason these "crazies" only got one day was because they didn't have the financial leverage to donate to campaigns or send Congressmen on "fact finding" junkets the way corporations do.

The Golden Rule:

The person with the gold makes the rules

And the government has allowed corporations to have personhood... after receiving a suitably large donation and a free vacation.

abbey1227, you constantly complain about how rich members of Congress are getting while "doing nothing" and yet I still can't understand how you can't see that it's because of corporations buying their legislative votes. You complain about "collectivism" but don't seem to understand that corporations are collectives.

merh, posted a perfect example in this thread and you're still blaming government incompetency when their incompetency has been bought and paid for!

[abbey1227]

Aug 25, 2021 3:09:54 GMT Prometheus said:

It's not an "easy solution" but one that I have touted over and over again.

To me, capitalism is about agreeable (good faith) exchange whether it be money for goods/services or wages for work. Corporations - by their collectivist nature - have undue leverage. Add in the fact that corporations are allowed to influence the political landscape with lobbyists then "good faith" is out the window.

In the TV show, "The West Wing" there was this thing brought up a couple of times: a day where all of the "crazies" were allowed to come in and talk up their plans. Some of the plans were a bit outlandish, but some had a shred of merit and we would see some member of the staff try to pursue making it a reality. The reason these "crazies" only got one day was because they didn't have the financial leverage to donate to campaigns or send Congressmen on "fact finding" junkets the way corporations do.

The Golden Rule:

The person with the gold makes the rules

And the government has allowed corporations to have personhood... after receiving a suitably large donation and a free vacation.

abbey1227 , you constantly complain about how rich members of Congress are getting while "doing nothing" and yet I still can't understand how you can't see that it's because of corporations buying their legislative votes. You complain about "collectivism" but don't seem to understand that corporations are collectives.

merh , posted a perfect example in this thread and you're still blaming government incompetency when their incompetency has been bought and paid for!

I guess all I meant is that the 'easy' part was in identifying the problem. Not in getting others to agree or comply.

Agreed, when it's a win-win for all involved, then what's the issue?

You claim corporations use undue leverage.........how do you think a person like me views that 'majority' voting to redistribute funds from the minority? They're both wrong, imo.

My thinking is is what is REALLY new under the Sun, though? Are there any new ideas here?

There are two Golden Rules.......the one you correctly point out in reality. And the other is the sentiment that we'd all prefer to be treated as we treat others.

I absolutely do see it. I've even joked they should be more like NASCAR drivers and wear uniforms with the logos and patches of the corporations that have paid them. But again, I don't see that as much different than the pols that are into providing for the majority of voters that want everything from other peoples' money.

IF you were fabulously wealthy........ I'm guessing that you're the sort of person that'd spend a good portion of that wealth trying to help others. IF I were in the same situation...... I'd likely do the same, just in a different way probably. BUT having said that......... at no point would I ever agree with the notion that either one of was obligated to spend a single penny in any way we didn't want to. There's something very immoral about that kind of moral peer pressure, imo.

Yeah, wouldn't that be because I sorta expect people who swore an oath to uphold the Constitution to do the 'right thing' no matter where the bribes were coming from?

[Prometheus]

Aug 25, 2021 3:22:46 GMT abbey1227 said:

Aug 25, 2021 3:09:54 GMT Prometheus said:

It's not an "easy solution" but one that I have touted over and over again.

To me, capitalism is about agreeable (good faith) exchange whether it be money for goods/services or wages for work. Corporations - by their collectivist nature - have undue leverage. Add in the fact that corporations are allowed to influence the political landscape with lobbyists then "good faith" is out the window.

In the TV show, "The West Wing" there was this thing brought up a couple of times: a day where all of the "crazies" were allowed to come in and talk up their plans. Some of the plans were a bit outlandish, but some had a shred of merit and we would see some member of the staff try to pursue making it a reality. The reason these "crazies" only got one day was because they didn't have the financial leverage to donate to campaigns or send Congressmen on "fact finding" junkets the way corporations do.

The Golden Rule:

The person with the gold makes the rules

And the government has allowed corporations to have personhood... after receiving a suitably large donation and a free vacation.

abbey1227 , you constantly complain about how rich members of Congress are getting while "doing nothing" and yet I still can't understand how you can't see that it's because of corporations buying their legislative votes. You complain about "collectivism" but don't seem to understand that corporations are collectives.

merh , posted a perfect example in this thread and you're still blaming government incompetency when their incompetency has been bought and paid for!

I guess all I meant is that the 'easy' part was in identifying the problem. Not in getting others to agree or comply.

Agreed, when it's a win-win for all involved, then what's the issue?

You claim corporations use undue leverage.........how do you think a person like me views that 'majority' voting to redistribute funds from the minority? They're both wrong, imo.

My thinking is is what is REALLY new under the Sun, though? Are there any new ideas here?

There are two Golden Rules.......the one you correctly point out in reality. And the other is the sentiment that we'd all prefer to be treated as we treat others.

I absolutely do see it. I've even joked they should be more like NASCAR drivers and wear uniforms with the logos and patches of the corporations that have paid them. But again, I don't see that as much different than the pols that are into providing for the majority of voters that want everything from other peoples' money.

IF you were fabulously wealthy........ I'm guessing that you're the sort of person that'd spend a good portion of that wealth trying to help others. IF I were in the same situation...... I'd likely do the same, just in a different way probably. BUT having said that......... at no point would I ever agree with the notion that either one of was obligated to spend a single penny in any way we didn't want to. There's something very immoral about that kind of moral peer pressure, imo.

Yeah, wouldn't that be because I sorta expect people who swore an oath to uphold the Constitution to do the 'right thing' no matter where the bribes were coming from?

Here's the fun part, Abs. The "fabulous wealth" of Bezos, Musk, and the others doesn't actually exist. Much of it is based on stock valuation. Eliminate corporations and you eliminate stock. Eliminate stock and all that's left is cash and property. Bezos et al. would still have plenty but I'm not sure they'd still be in the same firmament as the Rockefellers and Vanderbilts of old... maybe.

I do like the NASCAR idea.

I'm not sure politicians and corporations would like it though, so I'm pretty sure we'll never see it. THAT would be a great website though.

[abbey1227]

Aug 25, 2021 3:40:11 GMT Prometheus said:

Here's the fun part, Abs. The "fabulous wealth" of Bezos, Musk, and the others doesn't actually exist. Much of it is based on stock valuation. Eliminate corporations and you eliminate stock. Eliminate stock and all that's left is cash and property. Bezos et al. would still have plenty but I'm not sure they'd still be in the same firmament as the Rockefellers and Vanderbilts of old... maybe.

I do like the NASCAR idea.

I'm not sure politicians and corporations would like it though, so I'm pretty sure we'll never see it. THAT would be a great website though.

I get that. It's a bit like the Bitcoin #Millionaires, huh? Until you actually cash out and have it in your hand or account........ it's still just almost imaginary riches. The only risk is in cashing out too soon and letting someone else reap all the rewards of timing and trends.

I'd think it'd be easy enough to do online. What with public records and supposed reporting requirements of these folks. We agree that many or most of them are on the take......yet it many ways it's still all legal for them, right? That's what makes it so funny/pathetic and ripe for our jokes and disagreements.