Living It Up Wage

[abbey1227]

Earn
How much money a single person needs to earn to get by in every U.S. state
Published Tue, Aug 17 20219:00 AM EDTUpdated Tue, Aug 17 20211:58 PM EDT  by Francisco Velasquez

For single people living in the U.S., earning enough money to make ends meet looks different for each person. But location can play a major role, since the cost of housing, food, insurance and other necessities varies from place to place.

MIT’s Living Wage Calculator estimates the minimum income necessary for a single person to cover their living expenses and stay above the poverty line, without outside help, across the U.S.

The calculator takes into account a number of factors, including the cost of food, health care, housing, transportation and other necessities, such as personal care, clothing and housekeeping supplies. It also considers each state’s minimum wage and looks at annual changes in consumer spending patterns.

The most recent update to the calculator included a few changes to its methodology. The calculator’s estimates now include cell phone and Wi-Fi expenses, as well as civic engagement expenditures, such as pets, clubs and movie or museum excursions.

Overall, living costs have been increasing for Americans. They are spending more on where they live, the food they buy and how they get around.

Here’s a closer look at what a living wage would be, before taxes, for a single person, including the estimated costs of housing and food, in every U.S. state.

Alabama

Total required income before taxes: $28,652
Estimated housing costs: $7,357
Estimated food costs: $3,177

Alaska

Total required income before taxes: $31,333
Estimated housing costs: $10,851
Estimated food costs: $3,792

Arizona

Total required income before taxes: $31,077
Estimated housing costs: $9,363
Estimated food costs: $3,792

Arkansas

Total required income before taxes: $27,652
Estimated housing costs: $6,526
Estimated food costs: $3,171

California

Total required income before taxes: $38,823
Estimated housing costs: $15,235
Estimated food costs: $3,792

Colorado

Total required income before taxes: $34,009
Estimated housing costs: $11,583
Estimated food costs: $3,792

Connecticut

Total required income before taxes: $33,240
Estimated housing costs: $11,094
Estimated food costs: $3,690

Delaware

Total required income before taxes: $31,868
Estimated housing costs: $9,765
Estimated food costs: $3,177

Florida

Total required income before taxes: $30,825
Estimated housing costs: $10,756
Estimated food costs: $3,177

Georgia

Total required income before taxes: $31,940
Estimated housing costs: $9,878
Estimated food costs: $3,177

Hawaii

Total required income before taxes: $40,412
Estimated housing costs: $16,337
Estimated food costs: $3,792

Idaho

Total required income before taxes: $29,007
Estimated housing costs: $7,047
Estimated food costs: $3,792

Illinois

Total required income before taxes: $31,975
Estimated housing costs: $9,869
Estimated food costs: $3,246

Indiana

Total required income before taxes: $27,955
Estimated housing costs: $7,072
Estimated food costs: $3,246

Iowa

Total required income before taxes: $28,327
Estimated housing costs: $6,564
Estimated food costs: $3,246

Kansas

Total required income before taxes: $28,093
Estimated housing costs: $7,154
Estimated food costs: $3,246

Kentucky

Total required income before taxes: $28,048
Estimated housing costs: $6,510
Estimated food costs: $3,177

Louisiana

Total required income before taxes: $29,251
Estimated housing costs:$7,981
Estimated food costs: $3,177

Maine

Total required income before taxes: $31,043
Estimated housing costs: $8,809
Estimated food costs: $3,690

Maryland

Total required income before taxes: $35,879
Estimated housing costs: $13,193
Estimated food costs: $3,177

Massachusetts

Total required income before taxes: $36,889
Estimated housing costs: $15,894
Estimated food costs: $3,690

Michigan

Total required income before taxes: $28,354
Estimated housing costs: $7,415
Estimated food costs: $3,246

Minnesota

Total required income before taxes: $30,997
Estimated housing costs: $8,608
Estimated food costs: $3,246

Mississippi

Total required income before taxes: $27,936
Estimated housing costs: $6,941
Estimated food costs: $3,177

Missouri

Total required income before taxes: $28,535
Estimated housing costs: $6,976
Estimated food costs: $3,246

Montana

Total required income before taxes: $29,004
Estimated housing costs: $7,209
Estimated food costs: $3,792

Nebraska

Total required income before taxes: $28,234
Estimated housing costs: $6,913
Estimated food costs: $3,246

Nevada

Total required income before taxes: $28,442
Estimated housing costs: $8,563
Estimated food costs: $3,792

New Hampshire

Total required income before taxes: $30,089
Estimated housing costs: $10,155
Estimated food costs: $3,690

New Jersey

Total required income before taxes: $33,696
Estimated housing costs: $12,740
Estimated food costs: $3,690

New Mexico

Total required income before taxes: $29,057
Estimated housing costs: $7,300
Estimated food costs: $3,792

New York

Total required income before taxes: $38,719
Estimated housing costs: $15,084
Estimated food costs: $3,690

North Carolina

Total required income before taxes: $30,617
Estimated housing costs: $8,865
Estimated food costs: $3,177

North Dakota

Total required income before taxes: $27,211
Estimated housing costs: $7,266
Estimated food costs: $3,246

Ohio

Total required income before taxes: $27,369
Estimated housing costs: $6,779
Estimated food costs: $3,246

Oklahoma

Total required income before taxes: $28,133
Estimated housing costs: $7,109
Estimated food costs: $3,177

Oregon

Total required income before taxes: $35,050
Estimated housing costs: $11,314
Estimated food costs: $3,792

Pennsylvania

Total required income before taxes: $27,861
Estimated housing costs: $8,443
Estimated food costs: $3,690

Rhode Island

Total required income before taxes: $30,763
Estimated housing costs: $9,638
Estimated food costs: $3,690

South Carolina

Total required income before taxes: $30,328
Estimated housing costs: $8,336
Estimated food costs: $3,177

South Dakota

Total required income before taxes: $26,225
Estimated housing costs: $6,551
Estimated food costs: $3,246

Tennessee

Total required income before taxes: $27,563
Estimated housing costs: $7,928
Estimated food costs: $3,177

Texas

Total required income before taxes: $29,134
Estimated housing costs: $9,333
Estimated food costs: $3,177

Utah

Total required income before taxes: $30,211
Estimated housing costs: $8,495
Estimated food costs: $3,792

Vermont

Total required income before taxes: $31,057
Estimated housing costs: $10,061
Estimated food costs: $3,690

Virginia

Total required income before taxes: $34,552
Estimated housing costs: $12,162
Estimated food costs: $3,177

Washington

Total required income before taxes: $33,982
Estimated housing costs: $13,739
Estimated food costs: $3,792

West Virginia

Total required income before taxes: $27,837
Estimated housing costs: $7,062
Estimated food costs: $3,177

Wisconsin

Total required income before taxes: $29,160
Estimated housing costs: $7,325
Estimated food costs: $3,246

Wyoming

Total required income before taxes: $27,425
Estimated housing costs: $7,732

Estimated food costs: $3,792

www.cnbc.com/2021/08/17/income-a-single-person-needs-to-get-by-in-every-us-state.html?fbclid=IwAR0dcENb6jBPuBY3TvhDAektOQT6opIvplXwHh1nysK0wBrSLzl3kdd4Bxo

[Prometheus]

$15/hour x 40 hours x 52 weeks = $31,200 (before taxes)

SD: 26,225 / 52weeks / 40 hours = $12.61/hour

Hawaii: 40,412 / 52weeks / 40 hours = $19.43/hour

Just a guess, but if you average out all the hourlies, waddaya think the number will be?

I'm not going to do all 50.

Just one more: living wage in Wisconsin in $14.10/hour

For all current minimum wages by state: usafacts.org/articles/minimum-wage-america-how-many-people-are-earning-725-hour/?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=ND-Jobs&msclkid=4582c59fd1e9181df114a4824ca06459

A quick look shows that they're all coming up short... very short in many cases.

I'm not a big fan of increasing the minimum wage as it's just a perpetual merry-go-round, but when one looks at your data and the data I just provided, it's really easy to see why there are so many "working poor" and hungry children in the US. It's also easy to see why so much "assistance" is needed.

Seems to me that if people were making a "living wage" according to your figures, we could probably strike quite a few names off the welfare rolls.

That must be a dilemma for you.

[abbey1227]

Aug 19, 2021 0:01:14 GMT Prometheus said:

I'm not a big fan of increasing the minimum wage as it's just a perpetual merry-go-round, but when one looks at your data and the data I just provided, it's really easy to see why there are so many "working poor" and hungry children in the US. It's also easy to see why so much "assistance" is needed.

Seems to me that if people were making a "living wage" according to your figures, we could probably strike quite a few names off the welfare rolls.

That must be a dilemma for you.

True that.......total merry-go-round. I started working when the Minimum was about $3/hr.  And the Cost of Living always goes up more than the latest Minimum increase. That's not a coincidence.

You truly think so? Cuz when Americans make more money........they suddenly get wiser and start spending and saving it better? That is certainly not what I've observed. Conspicuous consumption again. And all those hungry children? Condoms and the pill are cheap and often subsidized. So where are all these hungry kids coming from? More excellent planning, perhaps?

It's not a dilemma for me because as I've explained many times...... I did not agree to adopt anyone thus far. The welfare roles themselves have become yet another Govt merry-go-round.........as if by design.

[Prometheus]

Aug 19, 2021 12:49:05 GMT abbey1227 said:

Aug 19, 2021 0:01:14 GMT Prometheus said:

I'm not a big fan of increasing the minimum wage as it's just a perpetual merry-go-round, but when one looks at your data and the data I just provided, it's really easy to see why there are so many "working poor" and hungry children in the US. It's also easy to see why so much "assistance" is needed.

Seems to me that if people were making a "living wage" according to your figures, we could probably strike quite a few names off the welfare rolls.

That must be a dilemma for you.

True that.......total merry-go-round. I started working when the Minimum was about $3/hr.  And the Cost of Living always goes up more than the latest Minimum increase. That's not a coincidence.

You truly think so? Cuz when Americans make more money........they suddenly get wiser and start spending and saving it better? That is certainly not what I've observed. Conspicuous consumption again. And all those hungry children? Condoms and the pill are cheap and often subsidized. So where are all these hungry kids coming from? More excellent planning, perhaps?

It's not a dilemma for me because as I've explained many times...... I did not agree to adopt anyone thus far. The welfare roles themselves have become yet another Govt merry-go-round.........as if by design.

1. It's not a coincidence. Big corporations need to maintain or increase profit margins and they pay politicians very well to make sure their goals are met.

2. I never said they'd get wiser or anything else of the sort. If you have to put words in my mouth, you should just accept that you've lost the battle.

3. And YOU still do nothing to fix it.

[abbey1227]

Aug 20, 2021 5:16:28 GMT Prometheus said:

1. It's not a coincidence. Big corporations need to maintain or increase profit margins and they pay politicians very well to make sure their goals are met.

2. I never said they'd get wiser or anything else of the sort. If you have to put words in my mouth, you should just accept that you've lost the battle.

3. And YOU still do nothing to fix it.

1. The teaching today has convinced people that it's not a matter of maintaining........but pure profits. And that is just not the case in most of the places I've been employed. Those lobbying costs must be worth the effort.......... just like trading handouts for votes works for so many politicians. God knows the business owners are greatly outnumbered as it is and always has been.

2. That's not putting words in your mouth this time. It's asking an honest question and continuing the conversation. I realize you believe you're absolutely correct and I'm absolutely wrong.

3. I ain't running for office. People don't prefer to vote for No.  And I'm not going out to do charitable works cuz I figure it'll just make me more sure of how lost a cause millions of people in the US really are. 

You got any suggestions you figure would appeal to me?

[mrright]

Aug 19, 2021 0:01:14 GMT Prometheus said:

$15/hour x 40 hours x 52 weeks = $31,200 (before taxes)

SD: 26,225 / 52weeks / 40 hours = $12.61/hour

Hawaii: 40,412 / 52weeks / 40 hours = $19.43/hour

Just a guess, but if you average out all the hourlies, waddaya think the number will be?

I'm not going to do all 50.

Just one more: living wage in Wisconsin in $14.10/hour

For all current minimum wages by state: usafacts.org/articles/minimum-wage-america-how-many-people-are-earning-725-hour/?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=ND-Jobs&msclkid=4582c59fd1e9181df114a4824ca06459

A quick look shows that they're all coming up short... very short in many cases.

I'm not a big fan of increasing the minimum wage as it's just a perpetual merry-go-round, but when one looks at your data and the data I just provided, it's really easy to see why there are so many "working poor" and hungry children in the US. It's also easy to see why so much "assistance" is needed.

Seems to me that if people were making a "living wage" according to your figures, we could probably strike quite a few names off the welfare rolls.

That must be a dilemma for you.

wage isnt govts job

[Prometheus]

Aug 20, 2021 13:27:27 GMT abbey1227 said:

Aug 20, 2021 5:16:28 GMT Prometheus said:

1. It's not a coincidence. Big corporations need to maintain or increase profit margins and they pay politicians very well to make sure their goals are met.

2. I never said they'd get wiser or anything else of the sort. If you have to put words in my mouth, you should just accept that you've lost the battle.

3. And YOU still do nothing to fix it.

1. The teaching today has convinced people that it's not a matter of maintaining........but pure profits. And that is just not the case in most of the places I've been employed. Those lobbying costs must be worth the effort.......... just like trading handouts for votes works for so many politicians. God knows the business owners are greatly outnumbered as it is and always has been.

2. That's not putting words in your mouth this time. It's asking an honest question and continuing the conversation. I realize you believe you're absolutely correct and I'm absolutely wrong.

3. I ain't running for office. People don't prefer to vote for No.  And I'm not going out to do charitable works cuz I figure it'll just make me more sure of how lost a cause millions of people in the US really are. 

You got any suggestions you figure would appeal to me?

1. Money talks

2. "Asking an honest question"

3. I'm pretty sure that no suggestion offered by anyone other than Q-Anon would appeal to you

[Prometheus]

Aug 20, 2021 19:44:31 GMT mrright said:

Aug 19, 2021 0:01:14 GMT Prometheus said:

$15/hour x 40 hours x 52 weeks = $31,200 (before taxes)

SD: 26,225 / 52weeks / 40 hours = $12.61/hour

Hawaii: 40,412 / 52weeks / 40 hours = $19.43/hour

Just a guess, but if you average out all the hourlies, waddaya think the number will be?

I'm not going to do all 50.

Just one more: living wage in Wisconsin in $14.10/hour

For all current minimum wages by state: usafacts.org/articles/minimum-wage-america-how-many-people-are-earning-725-hour/?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=ND-Jobs&msclkid=4582c59fd1e9181df114a4824ca06459

A quick look shows that they're all coming up short... very short in many cases.

I'm not a big fan of increasing the minimum wage as it's just a perpetual merry-go-round, but when one looks at your data and the data I just provided, it's really easy to see why there are so many "working poor" and hungry children in the US. It's also easy to see why so much "assistance" is needed.

Seems to me that if people were making a "living wage" according to your figures, we could probably strike quite a few names off the welfare rolls.

That must be a dilemma for you.

wage isnt govts job

By instituting central banking, government made wages their job. By creating the Labor Relations Board, they made wages their job. The majority asked for it and the government made wages their job.By accepting money from corporations, they made wages their job.

I'm all for an employer and employee negotiating a fair and equitable exchange, but as long as employers have the ear of government and the employees don't, that will never come to pass.

Ban lobbying and let's see what happens next.

[mrright]

not govts job. period

[abbey1227]

Aug 20, 2021 23:54:49 GMT Prometheus said:

1. Money talks

2. "Asking an honest question"

3. I'm pretty sure that no suggestion offered by anyone other than Q-Anon would appeal to you

1. All the more reason to embrace capitalism and get at least slightly good at it.

3. Many of you seem to be much more familiar with Q than I ever will be? It took merh providing one of her lengthy links just to offer me some idea of who or what they were to begin with. 

[Prometheus]

Aug 21, 2021 0:54:04 GMT abbey1227 said:

Aug 20, 2021 23:54:49 GMT Prometheus said:

1. Money talks

2. "Asking an honest question"

3. I'm pretty sure that no suggestion offered by anyone other than Q-Anon would appeal to you

1. All the more reason to embrace capitalism and get at least slightly good at it.

3. Many of you seem to be much more familiar with Q than I ever will be? It took merh providing one of her lengthy links just to offer me some idea of who or what they were to begin with. 

1. I'm all for capitalism. get rid of all corporations and unions.

2. And yet you say many of the same things and somehow never read all the coverage they received in the past few years. Hell, you probably didn't even notice that Mr. Buffalo Horns was known as "The Q Shaman."

Strange how you could miss all of that

[abbey1227]

Aug 21, 2021 4:00:19 GMT Prometheus said:

<abbr data-timestamp="1629518419000" class="o-timestamp time" title="Aug 20, 2021 23:00:19 GMT -5">Aug 20, 2021 23:00:19 GMT -5</abbr> Prometheus said:

1. I'm all for capitalism. get rid of all corporations and unions.

2. And yet you say many of the same things and somehow never read all the coverage they received in the past few years. Hell, you probably didn't even notice that Mr. Buffalo Horns was known as "The Q Shaman."

Strange how you could miss all of that

Don't you think part of that is you're being told which 'red flags' to be on the look out for. You really think the things that I support politically are crazy and unhinged? Un-American? I'm wondering how socialism and communism is perfectly acceptable, but my views are harmful and destructive to the US?

Maybe my lack of viewing of MCNBC or the Big 3 plus PBS leads me to sounding very different than what you tune into?

Do you for one minute think I came onto some new beliefs at the arrival of Trump running for president? I got decades of posting online stating pretty much the same views.

I do remember that goof being called the Shaman or Q Shaman.   

[Prometheus]

Aug 21, 2021 12:30:01 GMT abbey1227 said:

Aug 21, 2021 4:00:19 GMT Prometheus said:

<abbr data-timestamp="1629518419000" class="o-timestamp time" title="Aug 20, 2021 23:00:19 GMT -5">Aug 20, 2021 23:00:19 GMT -5</abbr> Prometheus said:

1. I'm all for capitalism. get rid of all corporations and unions.

2. And yet you say many of the same things and somehow never read all the coverage they received in the past few years. Hell, you probably didn't even notice that Mr. Buffalo Horns was known as "The Q Shaman."

Strange how you could miss all of that

Don't you think part of that is you're being told which 'red flags' to be on the look out for. You really think the things that I support politically are crazy and unhinged? Un-American? I'm wondering how socialism and communism is perfectly acceptable, but my views are harmful and destructive to the US?

Maybe my lack of viewing of MCNBC or the Big 3 plus PBS leads me to sounding very different than what you tune into?

Do you for one minute think I came onto some new beliefs at the arrival of Trump running for president? I got decades of posting online stating pretty much the same views.

I do remember that goof being called the Shaman or Q Shaman.   

1. Socialism and communism are unacceptable and the terms are widely misused even among those who purport to be their champions

2. I don't "tune in" to anything as I don't watch TV

3. I think you simply became more rabid and more susceptible to all the "conspiracy" bullshit.

4. His face was all over the news, but the whole Q-Anon thing became mainstream knowledge in the wake of the "Pizzagate." I seriously don't know how you've managed to live the past 5 years without hearing about it. Maybe because your news sources basically repeat Q-Anon claims as "news."

We all know that you think anything that comes from any source left of Breitbart is "fake news" or at least "horribly biased" but you just might want to peek your nose above the covers once in a while.

Here:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QAnon

Enjoy!

[abbey1227]

Aug 22, 2021 9:57:08 GMT Prometheus said:

Aug 21, 2021 12:30:01 GMT abbey1227 said:

Don't you think part of that is you're being told which 'red flags' to be on the look out for. You really think the things that I support politically are crazy and unhinged? Un-American? I'm wondering how socialism and communism is perfectly acceptable, but my views are harmful and destructive to the US?

Maybe my lack of viewing of MCNBC or the Big 3 plus PBS leads me to sounding very different than what you tune into?

Do you for one minute think I came onto some new beliefs at the arrival of Trump running for president? I got decades of posting online stating pretty much the same views.

I do remember that goof being called the Shaman or Q Shaman.   

1. Socialism and communism are unacceptable and the terms are widely misused even among those who purport to be their champions

2. I don't "tune in" to anything as I don't watch TV

3. I think you simply became more rabid and more susceptible to all the "conspiracy" bullshit.

4. His face was all over the news, but the whole Q-Anon thing became mainstream knowledge in the wake of the "Pizzagate." I seriously don't know how you've managed to live the past 5 years without hearing about it. Maybe because your news sources basically repeat Q-Anon claims as "news."

We all know that you think anything that comes from any source left of Breitbart is "fake news" or at least "horribly biased" but you just might want to peek your nose above the covers once in a while.

Here:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QAnon

Enjoy!

1. Are you actually saying they're unacceptable? Or just arguing that it's not really what is happening in the US?

2. I quit the Networks years ago. I just try to skim the headlines and articles to keep an eye on the trends. 

3. I like to think I'm somewhat moderate. heheheh  I hear from several people that do buy into even more extreme stuff than I'd ever embrace. Maybe my online presence is just a bit too honest and straightforward, so it comes off more harshly than me in real life?

4. I heard about Q before that goofy Shaman dude from merh. And that pizzagate thing was just bizarre.....but what can you expect these days? Loons are everywhere and will believe anything. Just like that fella that shot up the GOP softball game. Dude, when the 3 or 4 major 'news' networks claim that anything right of them is now 'extremist'......then everything they disagree with gets lumped in with the Qs and Proud Boys. THAT seems to be what you do to me often enough.

HA! I swear to Gawd I was responding on a sentence/paragraph at a time.......so when I read 'any source left of Breitbart' it made me LOL. See what I just wrote above about the mainstream media? 

As far as I'm concerned, I'm living in the real world.......and Obama and Cult are living in a fantasy world of lies and propaganda. I seem to be doing much better than a good portion of his fans, too so there's that......... proof is in the pudding? I'm not claiming I'm living in a lavish home in Martha's Vineyard and inviting hundreds of people to party during a pandemic, but I'm doing OK.

[Prometheus]

Aug 22, 2021 13:36:42 GMT abbey1227 said:

Aug 22, 2021 9:57:08 GMT Prometheus said:

1. Socialism and communism are unacceptable and the terms are widely misused even among those who purport to be their champions

2. I don't "tune in" to anything as I don't watch TV

3. I think you simply became more rabid and more susceptible to all the "conspiracy" bullshit.

4. His face was all over the news, but the whole Q-Anon thing became mainstream knowledge in the wake of the "Pizzagate." I seriously don't know how you've managed to live the past 5 years without hearing about it. Maybe because your news sources basically repeat Q-Anon claims as "news."

We all know that you think anything that comes from any source left of Breitbart is "fake news" or at least "horribly biased" but you just might want to peek your nose above the covers once in a while.

Here:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QAnon

Enjoy!

1. Are you actually saying they're unacceptable? Or just arguing that it's not really what is happening in the US?

2. I quit the Networks years ago. I just try to skim the headlines and articles to keep an eye on the trends. 

3. I like to think I'm somewhat moderate. heheheh  I hear from several people that do buy into even more extreme stuff than I'd ever embrace. Maybe my online presence is just a bit too honest and straightforward, so it comes off more harshly than me in real life?

4. I heard about Q before that goofy Shaman dude from merh. And that pizzagate thing was just bizarre.....but what can you expect these days? Loons are everywhere and will believe anything. Just like that fella that shot up the GOP softball game. Dude, when the 3 or 4 major 'news' networks claim that anything right of them is now 'extremist'......then everything they disagree with gets lumped in with the Qs and Proud Boys. THAT seems to be what you do to me often enough.

HA! I swear to Gawd I was responding on a sentence/paragraph at a time.......so when I read 'any source left of Breitbart' it made me LOL. See what I just wrote above about the mainstream media? 

As far as I'm concerned, I'm living in the real world.......and Obama and Cult are living in a fantasy world of lies and propaganda. I seem to be doing much better than a good portion of his fans, too so there's that......... proof is in the pudding? I'm not claiming I'm living in a lavish home in Martha's Vineyard and inviting hundreds of people to party during a pandemic, but I'm doing OK.

1. I'm saying both. However, too be clear, I do NOT consider social programs or any program necessitated by the social contract to be "socialism" even when the government certainly does own the "means of production." Hence my usual comments about highway systems, the military, etc.

2. And yet you have pointed out a number of times that headlines can be misleading. That suggests that you are assuming a particular level of social engineering which may or may not be present. If so, I'm not going to disagree per se, but I would encourage you to actually read beyond the headlines.

3. Being completely honest - and I've known you for a decade... maybe longer: you've moved further to the right in your rhetoric and rhetorical style

4. But you fail to see how they are connected and how they have influenced YOU.

5. Answered elsewhere

6. Proof of idiocy from the "other side" is not proof of "normalcy" from your side... nor of you.

[abbey1227]

Aug 23, 2021 4:03:17 GMT Prometheus said:

1. I'm saying both. However, too be clear, I do NOT consider social programs or any program necessitated by the social contract to be "socialism" even when the government certainly does own the "means of production." Hence my usual comments about highway systems, the military, etc.

2. And yet you have pointed out a number of times that headlines can be misleading. That suggests that you are assuming a particular level of social engineering which may or may not be present. If so, I'm not going to disagree per se, but I would encourage you to actually read beyond the headlines.

3. Being completely honest - and I've known you for a decade... maybe longer: you've moved further to the right in your rhetoric and rhetorical style

4. But you fail to see how they are connected and how they have influenced YOU.

5. Answered elsewhere

6. Proof of idiocy from the "other side" is not proof of "normalcy" from your side... nor of you.

1. OK

2. I think I've just noted the increasing levels of extreme hyperbole....and outright lies in headlines. Whereas the articles simply have the same agenda driven opinions.

3. OK. I'd love to hear one or two specific things, though.

4. Q has influenced me? or the particular kinds of sources that I find more credible or agreeable to my opinion have?

6. But I've never claimed to be normal. Just different enough to not wanna belong to the crowd.......no matter their affiliations.

[Prometheus]

Aug 23, 2021 8:53:17 GMT abbey1227 said:

Aug 23, 2021 4:03:17 GMT Prometheus said:

1. I'm saying both. However, too be clear, I do NOT consider social programs or any program necessitated by the social contract to be "socialism" even when the government certainly does own the "means of production." Hence my usual comments about highway systems, the military, etc.

2. And yet you have pointed out a number of times that headlines can be misleading. That suggests that you are assuming a particular level of social engineering which may or may not be present. If so, I'm not going to disagree per se, but I would encourage you to actually read beyond the headlines.

3. Being completely honest - and I've known you for a decade... maybe longer: you've moved further to the right in your rhetoric and rhetorical style

4. But you fail to see how they are connected and how they have influenced YOU.

5. Answered elsewhere

6. Proof of idiocy from the "other side" is not proof of "normalcy" from your side... nor of you.

1. OK

2. I think I've just noted the increasing levels of extreme hyperbole....and outright lies in headlines. Whereas the articles simply have the same agenda driven opinions.

3. OK. I'd love to hear one or two specific things, though.

4. Q has influenced me? or the particular kinds of sources that I find more credible or agreeable to my opinion have?

6. But I've never claimed to be normal. Just different enough to not wanna belong to the crowd.......no matter their affiliations.

2. But that only matters if you assume that most everyone is like you and only scanning the headlines. I thought you wanted other people to be more like you....

3. One thing - right off the top of my head - is that you used to spend time talking about policies rather than individuals and now you seem quite content with tossing out names... usually in the alt-right troll fashion of trying to disparage a "Democrat" in the hopes of firing up whomever you're talking to.

Only because it's more recent, I'll point to you bringing up Obama extremely often. He's arguably my second least favorite president of the past 60 years (and that's saying something) but you have been using his name to try to paint me with that brush. You never used to do things like that.

4. Yes, for the reasons you pointed out. Your preferred sources are simply rehashing a bunch of Q-Anon conspiracy bullshit.

5. And yet, here you are.

[abbey1227]

Aug 24, 2021 1:43:43 GMT Prometheus said:

2. But that only matters if you assume that most everyone is like you and only scanning the headlines. I thought you wanted other people to be more like you....

3. One thing - right off the top of my head - is that you used to spend time talking about policies rather than individuals and now you seem quite content with tossing out names... usually in the alt-right troll fashion of trying to disparage a "Democrat" in the hopes of firing up whomever you're talking to.

Only because it's more recent, I'll point to you bringing up Obama extremely often. He's arguably my second least favorite president of the past 60 years (and that's saying something) but you have been using his name to try to paint me with that brush. You never used to do things like that.

4. Yes, for the reasons you pointed out. Your preferred sources are simply rehashing a bunch of Q-Anon conspiracy bullshit.

5. And yet, here you are.

2. Nahhhhh, I'm more like Willy Wonka trying to stop the fat kid from ending up in the tube.    People are still free to do what they will.

3. Those are some valid points. And I'd honestly be perfectly happy never bringing up that guy's name the rest of my life. Maybe it's been the onslaught of "Trump lover" accusations? when it's not like I held different views before he ever arrived on the political scene.

5.? or 6.?   Am I belonging to the crowd? Or just engaging in a little argument making? It's really just a bit of shouting into the abyss either way.

[Prometheus]

Aug 24, 2021 2:01:01 GMT abbey1227 said:

Aug 24, 2021 1:43:43 GMT Prometheus said:

2. But that only matters if you assume that most everyone is like you and only scanning the headlines. I thought you wanted other people to be more like you....

3. One thing - right off the top of my head - is that you used to spend time talking about policies rather than individuals and now you seem quite content with tossing out names... usually in the alt-right troll fashion of trying to disparage a "Democrat" in the hopes of firing up whomever you're talking to.

Only because it's more recent, I'll point to you bringing up Obama extremely often. He's arguably my second least favorite president of the past 60 years (and that's saying something) but you have been using his name to try to paint me with that brush. You never used to do things like that.

4. Yes, for the reasons you pointed out. Your preferred sources are simply rehashing a bunch of Q-Anon conspiracy bullshit.

5. And yet, here you are.

2. Nahhhhh, I'm more like Willy Wonka trying to stop the fat kid from ending up in the tube.    People are still free to do what they will.

3. Those are some valid points. And I'd honestly be perfectly happy never bringing up that guy's name the rest of my life. Maybe it's been the onslaught of "Trump lover" accusations? when it's not like I held different views before he ever arrived on the political scene.

5.? or 6.?   Am I belonging to the crowd? Or just engaging in a little argument making? It's really just a bit of shouting into the abyss either way.

2. And we all know that Wonka did nothing

3. I think you used to be more open to ideas and discussions. Trump gave you the ability to disengage from polite discourse and you took it.

[abbey1227]

Aug 24, 2021 3:20:43 GMT Prometheus said:

2. And we all know that Wonka did nothing

3. I think you used to be more open to ideas and discussions. Trump gave you the ability to disengage from polite discourse and you took it.

2. Wha?   He made delicious candy.

3. I'd like to think I'm open to discussions the same as ever. If I'm cruder or more harsh than before, couldn't that just be because after 20+ years of discussions, it seems pretty apparent that people are rarely changing their minds on anything anyway. 

I'm sure that's how merh thinks of me.    "How dense is this guy anyway?"  "How does he sleep at nite or even look in the mirror?"