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Post by abbey1227 on Jun 28, 2021 3:49:37 GMT
Same difference sometimes.........
Close Alert
Baltimore student passes 3 classes in 4 years, ranks near top half of class with 0.13 GPA
by CHRIS PAPST, WBFF StaffWednesday, March 3rd 2021
BALTIMORE (WBFF) — A shocking discovery came out of a Baltimore high school, where hundreds of students are failing. It’s a school where a student who passed three classes in four years, ranks near the top half of his class with a 0.13 grade point average.
Tiffany France thought her son would receive his diploma this coming June. But after four years of high school, France just learned, her 17-year-old must start over. He’s been moved back to ninth grade.
“He's stressed and I am too. I told him I'm probably going to start crying. I don't know what to do for him,” France said. “Why would he do three more years in school? He didn't fail, the school failed him. The school failed at their job. They failed. They failed, that's the problem here. They failed. They failed. He didn't deserve that.”
France’s son attends Augusta Fells Savage Institute of Visual Arts in west Baltimore. His transcripts show he’s passed just three classes in four years, earning 2.5 credits, placing him in ninth grade. But France says she didn’t know that until February.
A Baltimore City Student passes three classes in four Years, and ranks near the top half of the class with a 0.13 GPA (WBFF).
She has three children and works three jobs. She thought her oldest son was doing well because even though he failed most of his classes, he was being promoted. His transcripts show he failed Spanish I and Algebra I but was promoted to Spanish II and Algebra II. He also failed English II but was passed on to English III.
“I'm just assuming that if you are passing, that you have the proper things to go to the next grade and the right grades, you have the right credits,” said France.
Her son's records show in his first three years at Augusta Fells, he failed 22 classes and was late or absent 272 days. But in those three years, only one teacher requested a parent conference, which France says never happened. No one from the school told France her son was failing and not going to class.
“I feel like they never gave my son an opportunity, like if there was an issue with him, not advancing or not progressing, that they should have contacted me first, three years ago,” said France.
In his four years at Augusta Fells, France’s son earned a GPA of 0.13. He only passed three classes, but his transcripts show his class rank is 62 out of 120. This means, nearly half his classmates, 58 of them, have a 0.13 grade point average or lower.
“He's a good kid. He didn't deserve that. Where's the mentors? Where is the help for him? I hate that this is happening to my child,” said France.
WBFF talked with a City Schools administrator, who works inside North Avenue, but asked not to be identified for fear of retaliation. That administrator says the school system absolutely failed France’s son.
The administrator said City Schools failed because it has protocols and interventions set up to help students who are falling behind or have low attendance. In France’s son’s case, they didn’t happen.
“I get angry. There's nothing but frustration. We see on the news the crime that occurs, the murders, the shootings, we know that there are high levels of poverty in Baltimore. Things like this are adding to that. His transcript is not unusual to me. I've seen many transcripts, many report cards, like this particular student,” said the City Schools administrator.
Dr. Sonja Santelises was the City Schools CEO four years ago when France’s son was a freshman. But she will did not agree to an interview. Instead, she sent a two-page statement, which explains what should happen when a student is chronically absent or failing.
WBFF asked the City Schools administrator what they would say to France. The administrator replied, “I didn't have a hand on this student, but I worked for City Schools. So, he is one of my kids. I would hug her, and I would apologize profusely.”
“He feels embarrassed, he feels like a failure,” France said of her son. “I'm like, you can't feel like that. And you have to be strong and you got to keep fighting. Life is about fighting. Things happen, but you got to keep fighting. And he's willing, he's trying, but who would he turn to when the people that's supposed to help him is not? Who do he turn to?”
France has pulled her son out of Augusta Fells. He’s now enrolled in an accelerated school program at Francis M. Wood in west Baltimore. If her son works hard, he could graduate by 2023.
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Post by Prometheus on Jun 28, 2021 5:28:33 GMT
There's a lot going on there isn't there?
Bad schools
Bad teachers
Bad students
Bad parents
Bad culture
And white people will be blamed for all of it. White people will be shamed into attempting to fix it but coming up short when the bad culture interferes. And should they actually succeed, the black community will denounce stories about it for promoting the "white savior" trope rather than acknowledging how a black community turned "itself" around.
There are a lot of "alternative history" books talking about how things would have been different if the Confederacy had won. Has anyone ever written a book where Lincoln said, "Fuck it. Let them secede."?
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Post by ant-mac on Jun 28, 2021 5:41:39 GMT
Same difference sometimes.........
Close Alert
Baltimore student passes 3 classes in 4 years, ranks near top half of class with 0.13 GPA
by CHRIS PAPST, WBFF StaffWednesday, March 3rd 2021
BALTIMORE (WBFF) — A shocking discovery came out of a Baltimore high school, where hundreds of students are failing. It’s a school where a student who passed three classes in four years, ranks near the top half of his class with a 0.13 grade point average.
Tiffany France thought her son would receive his diploma this coming June. But after four years of high school, France just learned, her 17-year-old must start over. He’s been moved back to ninth grade.
“He's stressed and I am too. I told him I'm probably going to start crying. I don't know what to do for him,” France said. “Why would he do three more years in school? He didn't fail, the school failed him. The school failed at their job. They failed. They failed, that's the problem here. They failed. They failed. He didn't deserve that.”
France’s son attends Augusta Fells Savage Institute of Visual Arts in west Baltimore. His transcripts show he’s passed just three classes in four years, earning 2.5 credits, placing him in ninth grade. But France says she didn’t know that until February.
A Baltimore City Student passes three classes in four Years, and ranks near the top half of the class with a 0.13 GPA (WBFF).
She has three children and works three jobs. She thought her oldest son was doing well because even though he failed most of his classes, he was being promoted. His transcripts show he failed Spanish I and Algebra I but was promoted to Spanish II and Algebra II. He also failed English II but was passed on to English III.
“I'm just assuming that if you are passing, that you have the proper things to go to the next grade and the right grades, you have the right credits,” said France.
Her son's records show in his first three years at Augusta Fells, he failed 22 classes and was late or absent 272 days. But in those three years, only one teacher requested a parent conference, which France says never happened. No one from the school told France her son was failing and not going to class.
“I feel like they never gave my son an opportunity, like if there was an issue with him, not advancing or not progressing, that they should have contacted me first, three years ago,” said France.
In his four years at Augusta Fells, France’s son earned a GPA of 0.13. He only passed three classes, but his transcripts show his class rank is 62 out of 120. This means, nearly half his classmates, 58 of them, have a 0.13 grade point average or lower.
“He's a good kid. He didn't deserve that. Where's the mentors? Where is the help for him? I hate that this is happening to my child,” said France.
WBFF talked with a City Schools administrator, who works inside North Avenue, but asked not to be identified for fear of retaliation. That administrator says the school system absolutely failed France’s son.
The administrator said City Schools failed because it has protocols and interventions set up to help students who are falling behind or have low attendance. In France’s son’s case, they didn’t happen.
“I get angry. There's nothing but frustration. We see on the news the crime that occurs, the murders, the shootings, we know that there are high levels of poverty in Baltimore. Things like this are adding to that. His transcript is not unusual to me. I've seen many transcripts, many report cards, like this particular student,” said the City Schools administrator.
Dr. Sonja Santelises was the City Schools CEO four years ago when France’s son was a freshman. But she will did not agree to an interview. Instead, she sent a two-page statement, which explains what should happen when a student is chronically absent or failing.
WBFF asked the City Schools administrator what they would say to France. The administrator replied, “I didn't have a hand on this student, but I worked for City Schools. So, he is one of my kids. I would hug her, and I would apologize profusely.”
“He feels embarrassed, he feels like a failure,” France said of her son. “I'm like, you can't feel like that. And you have to be strong and you got to keep fighting. Life is about fighting. Things happen, but you got to keep fighting. And he's willing, he's trying, but who would he turn to when the people that's supposed to help him is not? Who do he turn to?”
France has pulled her son out of Augusta Fells. He’s now enrolled in an accelerated school program at Francis M. Wood in west Baltimore. If her son works hard, he could graduate by 2023.
How could the mother not know how her son was doing? Didn't she ever read a school report? Didn't she ever attend a parent / teacher meeting? |
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Post by abbey1227 on Jun 28, 2021 10:09:32 GMT
How could the mother not know how her son was doing? Didn't she ever read a school report? Didn't she ever attend a parent / teacher meeting?
tut Tut TUT! How dare you engage in victim blaming.
I gotta lotta blame to spread around here. EVERYONE is at fault from the kid to the Mom to the teachers to the schools to the politicians. And that's tons of kids in just ONE school.
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Post by Prometheus on Jun 28, 2021 14:54:23 GMT
How could the mother not know how her son was doing? Didn't she ever read a school report? Didn't she ever attend a parent / teacher meeting?
tut Tut TUT! How dare you engage in victim blaming.
I gotta lotta blame to spread around here. EVERYONE is at fault from the kid to the Mom to the teachers to the schools to the politicians. And that's tons of kids in just ONE school.
You think 120 kids is a lot for senior class?
I graduated with nearly 300.
Or are you talking about the number of failing kids?
If so, then I agree.
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Post by ant-mac on Jun 28, 2021 15:41:42 GMT
How could the mother not know how her son was doing? Didn't she ever read a school report? Didn't she ever attend a parent / teacher meeting?
tut Tut TUT! How dare you engage in victim blaming.
I gotta lotta blame to spread around here. EVERYONE is at fault from the kid to the Mom to the teachers to the schools to the politicians. And that's tons of kids in just ONE school.
I've not yet addressed the role of the "victim" in this matter. I was referring to the role his parent and/or guardian has played in this matter. You know, the person who's primarily responsible for his care, development and wellbeing. |
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Post by abbey1227 on Jun 28, 2021 23:12:04 GMT
You think 120 kids is a lot for senior class?
I graduated with nearly 300.
Or are you talking about the number of failing kids?
If so, then I agree.
My class was in between ....... it's not a huge graduating class..........but 100 kids failing is still a lotta kids, especially when we're looking at just one school.
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Post by Prometheus on Jun 29, 2021 3:17:08 GMT
You think 120 kids is a lot for senior class?
I graduated with nearly 300.
Or are you talking about the number of failing kids?
If so, then I agree.
My class was in between ....... it's not a huge graduating class..........but 100 kids failing is still a lotta kids, especially when we're looking at just one school.
Got it |
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Post by abbey1227 on Jun 29, 2021 5:54:27 GMT
My class was in between ....... it's not a huge graduating class..........but 100 kids failing is still a lotta kids, especially when we're looking at just one school.
Got it
US students are failing at frightening levels during the pandemic. We know Fs 'disproportionately punish' students with 'weaker safety nets', but experts can't decide what to do.
Inyoung Choi
Dec 21, 2020, 1:58 PM
Nationwide, schools have reported record numbers of students with F-grades, amid an unprecedented academic year where many schools have turned to online class because of the pandemic.
The gaps in academic achievement have disproportionately struck poorer students and families of color because they disproportionately have less access to internet or connected devices.
Experts are split on whether the alarming number of failing grades during the pandemic calls for schools to revisit whether they should continue using letter grades.
So they see horrific and embarrassing numbers............and they're debating whether to do away with letter grades? ![[giveup]](//storage.proboards.com/7182076/images/FSYefibmKqtatIXMgHZg.gif)
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Post by Prometheus on Jun 30, 2021 2:49:08 GMT
US students are failing at frightening levels during the pandemic. We know Fs 'disproportionately punish' students with 'weaker safety nets', but experts can't decide what to do.
Inyoung Choi
Dec 21, 2020, 1:58 PM
Nationwide, schools have reported record numbers of students with F-grades, amid an unprecedented academic year where many schools have turned to online class because of the pandemic.
The gaps in academic achievement have disproportionately struck poorer students and families of color because they disproportionately have less access to internet or connected devices.
Experts are split on whether the alarming number of failing grades during the pandemic calls for schools to revisit whether they should continue using letter grades.
So they see horrific and embarrassing numbers............and they're debating whether to do away with letter grades?
There's a lot going on there too.
Let's start with the online learning process: It's hard to keep students focused and engaged in the classroom. It's even harder when they are in their homes and surrounded by distractions. That grades (and - ultimately - retention) would fall had to be obvious from the outset. That's why so many schools tried as hard as they could to do "half and half" classes when that option was available.
Connectivity: This was also foreseeable and why "half-and half" classes would have provided a better option.
TBH, I'm not sure that school "disaster planning" ever seriously took distance learning into account. I can tell you that when we decided to re-open classes on line, the first few weeks were tough. I had to change my teaching methods and create new teaching materials. Now, if we went into lock-down tomorrow, I could pick up and never miss a beat.
But for the students, you're still dealing with distractions and connectivity issues. I - as I'm hoping the public schools in the US did as well - developed a "best practices" guide detailing how to minimize distractions and maximize connection speeds. Much of the latter depended on other members of the household putting their lives on hold while the children were in class.
Let's move on to the biggie: Grading
As a teacher, I'm going to tell you that grading isn't just about letting the students and their parents know how well they are doing in school but also a tool for the teacher to know how well they are teaching: if 10% of the students lost the most points on a certain portion of a test, then the students need more help. If 90% of the students lost the most points on a certain part of the test then the teacher didn't do a good job. The teachers from the OP should be taken out and shot.
Of course, that doesn't really get to the heart of the matter does it? Teachers can keep that information and never release it. The heart of the matter is about self-esteem and not just for the students but for the parents as well. A failing report card shines a light on bad parenting as much as it shows poor scholarship or even bad teaching.
A "pass/fail" system is just a minimalist take on the old "C's get degrees" trope which is the motto of slackers (and slacker wannabes) everywhere. But what about the downstream effects? Failing students are still going to fail and the C and D slackers are going to slip closer to the edge and maybe go over it. Without grades, the A and B students have no incentives to try harder. And don't get me started on the backlash you'd get from the Asian community.
And what about college admissions? Despite the current push to eliminate SAT and ACT scores, how would colleges know who would be the best candidates for their programs? Are Harvard and Yale just going to blindly accept anyone with a "Pass" and a checkbook? Will colleges and universities be forced to create their own entrance exams? Will the parents of former D students who now identify as "Pass" be upset at that prospect and demand that it be abolished or never even begun?
If "Pass/Fail" were to be implemented, the only way it could be meaningful is of the threshold for "Pass" was moved from 60% to 75% or higher and that would result in schools having an even worse showing than before. They'd all start looking like the school in the OP.
Letter grades have always corresponded to number grades, so they'd have to go as well.
GPA scores could still be calculated and sent home to parents, but without corresponding letter or number grades, how are the parents supposed to know what subjects their children need help with?
Are the teachers supposed to take up even more of their time writing lengthy reports to send to parents when letter or number grades express progress so succinctly?
In the end, no change to the grading system is going to have even the smallest effect on the level of resources available to the poor. It's just an attempt at making them feel slightly better about being poor and that's where modern American "liberals" lose my support every time. It's like a doctor ordering a little more morphine to keep the patient "comfortable" until the inevitable happens.
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Post by abbey1227 on Jun 30, 2021 4:00:28 GMT
There's a lot going on there too.
Let's start with the online learning process: It's hard to keep students focused and engaged in the classroom. It's even harder when they are in their homes and surrounded by distractions. That grades (and - ultimately - retention) would fall had to be obvious from the outset. That's why so many schools tried as hard as they could to do "half and half" classes when that option was available.
Connectivity: This was also foreseeable and why "half-and half" classes would have provided a better option.
TBH, I'm not sure that school "disaster planning" ever seriously took distance learning into account. I can tell you that when we decided to re-open classes on line, the first few weeks were tough. I had to change my teaching methods and create new teaching materials. Now, if we went into lock-down tomorrow, I could pick up and never miss a beat.
But for the students, you're still dealing with distractions and connectivity issues. I - as I'm hoping the public schools in the US did as well - developed a "best practices" guide detailing how to minimize distractions and maximize connection speeds. Much of the latter depended on other members of the household putting their lives on hold while the children were in class.
Let's move on to the biggie: Grading
As a teacher, I'm going to tell you that grading isn't just about letting the students and their parents know how well they are doing in school but also a tool for the teacher to know how well they are teaching: if 10% of the students lost the most points on a certain portion of a test, then the students need more help. If 90% of the students lost the most points on a certain part of the test then the teacher didn't do a good job. The teachers from the OP should be taken out and shot.
Of course, that doesn't really get to the heart of the matter does it? Teachers can keep that information and never release it. The heart of the matter is about self-esteem and not just for the students but for the parents as well. A failing report card shines a light on bad parenting as much as it shows poor scholarship or even bad teaching.
A "pass/fail" system is just a minimalist take on the old "C's get degrees" trope which is the motto of slackers (and slacker wannabes) everywhere. But what about the downstream effects? Failing students are still going to fail and the C and D slackers are going to slip closer to the edge and maybe go over it. Without grades, the A and B students have no incentives to try harder. And don't get me started on the backlash you'd get from the Asian community.
And what about college admissions? Despite the current push to eliminate SAT and ACT scores, how would colleges know who would be the best candidates for their programs? Are Harvard and Yale just going to blindly accept anyone with a "Pass" and a checkbook? Will colleges and universities be forced to create their own entrance exams? Will the parents of former D students who now identify as "Pass" be upset at that prospect and demand that it be abolished or never even begun?
If "Pass/Fail" were to be implemented, the only way it could be meaningful is of the threshold for "Pass" was moved from 60% to 75% or higher and that would result in schools having an even worse showing than before. They'd all start looking like the school in the OP.
Letter grades have always corresponded to number grades, so they'd have to go as well.
GPA scores could still be calculated and sent home to parents, but without corresponding letter or number grades, how are the parents supposed to know what subjects their children need help with?
Are the teachers supposed to take up even more of their time writing lengthy reports to send to parents when letter or number grades express progress so succinctly?
In the end, no change to the grading system is going to have even the smallest effect on the level of resources available to the poor. It's just an attempt at making them feel slightly better about being poor and that's where modern American "liberals" lose my support every time. It's like a doctor ordering a little more morphine to keep the patient "comfortable" until the inevitable happens.
3 things I took from that........
1. Teachers should be shot?  And people think I'm harsh.
2. Excellent point on the self-esteem of the parents. I hope you still know, while I rip on teachers, ultimately I hold the parents and student to a much greater degree of responsibility. NOBODY is going to care for you and yours more than you and yours. It's all part of realizing how the real world works before reaching adulthood.
3. That last point about the poor and the pandering that goes on......... year after year. This is where I see waste and you usually tend to see "Well, at least they tried." To wrap it up, that part about doctors is interesting to me, too. Because I see it as a very similar situation in the US. We're a country filled with obese and sickly people.....worse yet, all the best doctors in the world won't fix that. We've become a nation of pill popping/easy way out people. So aside from pointing out glaring issues and providing the info.......what can doctors really do? So again, I'd hold the individual much more responsible than the doctors for the status of the typical American.
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Post by Prometheus on Jun 30, 2021 4:46:36 GMT
There's a lot going on there too.
Let's start with the online learning process: It's hard to keep students focused and engaged in the classroom. It's even harder when they are in their homes and surrounded by distractions. That grades (and - ultimately - retention) would fall had to be obvious from the outset. That's why so many schools tried as hard as they could to do "half and half" classes when that option was available.
Connectivity: This was also foreseeable and why "half-and half" classes would have provided a better option.
TBH, I'm not sure that school "disaster planning" ever seriously took distance learning into account. I can tell you that when we decided to re-open classes on line, the first few weeks were tough. I had to change my teaching methods and create new teaching materials. Now, if we went into lock-down tomorrow, I could pick up and never miss a beat.
But for the students, you're still dealing with distractions and connectivity issues. I - as I'm hoping the public schools in the US did as well - developed a "best practices" guide detailing how to minimize distractions and maximize connection speeds. Much of the latter depended on other members of the household putting their lives on hold while the children were in class.
Let's move on to the biggie: Grading
As a teacher, I'm going to tell you that grading isn't just about letting the students and their parents know how well they are doing in school but also a tool for the teacher to know how well they are teaching: if 10% of the students lost the most points on a certain portion of a test, then the students need more help. If 90% of the students lost the most points on a certain part of the test then the teacher didn't do a good job. The teachers from the OP should be taken out and shot.
Of course, that doesn't really get to the heart of the matter does it? Teachers can keep that information and never release it. The heart of the matter is about self-esteem and not just for the students but for the parents as well. A failing report card shines a light on bad parenting as much as it shows poor scholarship or even bad teaching.
A "pass/fail" system is just a minimalist take on the old "C's get degrees" trope which is the motto of slackers (and slacker wannabes) everywhere. But what about the downstream effects? Failing students are still going to fail and the C and D slackers are going to slip closer to the edge and maybe go over it. Without grades, the A and B students have no incentives to try harder. And don't get me started on the backlash you'd get from the Asian community.
And what about college admissions? Despite the current push to eliminate SAT and ACT scores, how would colleges know who would be the best candidates for their programs? Are Harvard and Yale just going to blindly accept anyone with a "Pass" and a checkbook? Will colleges and universities be forced to create their own entrance exams? Will the parents of former D students who now identify as "Pass" be upset at that prospect and demand that it be abolished or never even begun?
If "Pass/Fail" were to be implemented, the only way it could be meaningful is of the threshold for "Pass" was moved from 60% to 75% or higher and that would result in schools having an even worse showing than before. They'd all start looking like the school in the OP.
Letter grades have always corresponded to number grades, so they'd have to go as well.
GPA scores could still be calculated and sent home to parents, but without corresponding letter or number grades, how are the parents supposed to know what subjects their children need help with?
Are the teachers supposed to take up even more of their time writing lengthy reports to send to parents when letter or number grades express progress so succinctly?
In the end, no change to the grading system is going to have even the smallest effect on the level of resources available to the poor. It's just an attempt at making them feel slightly better about being poor and that's where modern American "liberals" lose my support every time. It's like a doctor ordering a little more morphine to keep the patient "comfortable" until the inevitable happens.
3 things I took from that........
1. Teachers should be shot? And people think I'm harsh.
2. Excellent point on the self-esteem of the parents. I hope you still know, while I rip on teachers, ultimately I hold the parents and student to a much greater degree of responsibility. NOBODY is going to care for you and yours more than you and yours. It's all part of realizing how the real world works before reaching adulthood.
3. That last point about the poor and the pandering that goes on......... year after year. This is where I see waste and you usually tend to see "Well, at least they tried." To wrap it up, that part about doctors is interesting to me, too. Because I see it as a very similar situation in the US. We're a country filled with obese and sickly people.....worse yet, all the best doctors in the world won't fix that. We've become a nation of pill popping/easy way out people. So aside from pointing out glaring issues and providing the info.......what can doctors really do? So again, I'd hold the individual much more responsible than the doctors for the status of the typical American.
1. As a teacher, I'm not a fan of anyone who diminishes the profession. Shooting might actually be too quick.
2. I hold parents to an equal degree of responsibility. Sadly, too many parents are so low on the responsibility scale as to barely register... and they wonder why their children are failing....
3. "No smoking" signs are OK but "No fatties" signs are wrong.
And yet the smoking bans are hailed for reducing the number of smokers.
Imagine if bars and clubs had a scale outside the door....
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Post by abbey1227 on Jun 30, 2021 8:24:28 GMT
1. As a teacher, I'm not a fan of anyone who diminishes the profession. Shooting might actually be too quick.
2. I hold parents to an equal degree of responsibility. Sadly, too many parents are so low on the responsibility scale as to barely register... and they wonder why their children are failing....
3. "No smoking" signs are OK but "No fatties" signs are wrong.
And yet the smoking bans are hailed for reducing the number of smokers.
Imagine if bars and clubs had a scale outside the door....
1. I'm sure many in the clergy feel the same way.
2. Agreed. My wife's biggest pet peeve is people who say "Must be nice."....... I think one of my least favorite claims is "OH! I'd do anything for my kids." Except be just a bit more responsible, of course. ![[rolleye1]](//storage.proboards.com/7182076/images/MTjbungPBOzv0BKQvdPJ.gif)
3. When you factor in the pot smoking and vaping.......do you think the anti-smoking campaigns have been all that effective since the 80s or 90s? I would guess both the anti-drug and anti-obesity campaigns would be seen as failures.
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Post by Prometheus on Jun 30, 2021 11:44:40 GMT
1. As a teacher, I'm not a fan of anyone who diminishes the profession. Shooting might actually be too quick.
2. I hold parents to an equal degree of responsibility. Sadly, too many parents are so low on the responsibility scale as to barely register... and they wonder why their children are failing....
3. "No smoking" signs are OK but "No fatties" signs are wrong.
And yet the smoking bans are hailed for reducing the number of smokers.
Imagine if bars and clubs had a scale outside the door....
1. I'm sure many in the clergy feel the same way.
2. Agreed. My wife's biggest pet peeve is people who say "Must be nice."....... I think one of my least favorite claims is "OH! I'd do anything for my kids." Except be just a bit more responsible, of course.
3. When you factor in the pot smoking and vaping.......do you think the anti-smoking campaigns have been all that effective since the 80s or 90s? I would guess both the anti-drug and anti-obesity campaigns would be seen as failures.
US smokers consumed 631,500,000,000 cigarettes in 1980 and only 267 billion in 2015 (last year verified) so I'd say it worked a bit. |
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Post by abbey1227 on Jun 30, 2021 12:33:01 GMT
1. I'm sure many in the clergy feel the same way.
2. Agreed. My wife's biggest pet peeve is people who say "Must be nice."....... I think one of my least favorite claims is "OH! I'd do anything for my kids." Except be just a bit more responsible, of course.
3. When you factor in the pot smoking and vaping.......do you think the anti-smoking campaigns have been all that effective since the 80s or 90s? I would guess both the anti-drug and anti-obesity campaigns would be seen as failures.
US smokers consumed 631,500,000,000 cigarettes in 1980 and only 267 billion in 2015 (last year verified) so I'd say it worked a bit.
You forget to include pot smoking and vaping numbers? The wife quit after 20-some years and went to vaping. You....yet? 
Some say they're both worse in their own ways (Although one Admin certainly argued against vaping being bad)
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Post by Prometheus on Jun 30, 2021 16:48:02 GMT
US smokers consumed 631,500,000,000 cigarettes in 1980 and only 267 billion in 2015 (last year verified) so I'd say it worked a bit.
You forget to include pot smoking and vaping numbers? The wife quit after 20-some years and went to vaping. You....yet?
Some say they're both worse in their own ways (Although one Admin certainly argued against vaping being bad)
SMFH
OK Abs. You got me. I don't know how many people went "smokeless," I'm sure that in your mind that that somehow translates into "people won't eat healthier either, therefore we should just let them get fatter so at least we can make fun of them."
Let's not try to help people. Let's let them all wallow in their misery... as long as we are at least one rung above them socially... or one pound lighter than they are... or don't smoke... or don't drink.
It seems to me that you live a perfectly healthy life, free of the debaucheries other Americans are prone to... yet you're still an overnight clerk at a Kinko's (or whatever your drone job is). Everyone should aspire to be just like you: angry and uneducated.
What a wonderful world....
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Post by abbey1227 on Jul 1, 2021 0:28:13 GMT
SMFH
OK Abs. You got me. I don't know how many people went "smokeless," I'm sure that in your mind that that somehow translates into "people won't eat healthier either, therefore we should just let them get fatter so at least we can make fun of them."
Let's not try to help people. Let's let them all wallow in their misery... as long as we are at least one rung above them socially... or one pound lighter than they are... or don't smoke... or don't drink.
It seems to me that you live a perfectly healthy life, free of the debaucheries other Americans are prone to... yet you're still an overnight clerk at a Kinko's (or whatever your drone job is). Everyone should aspire to be just like you: angry and uneducated.
What a wonderful world....
ummm, yeah! That's the whole point of personal freedom.
That depends on how you define 'help' and how far you're gonna push that agenda. Providing information? Sure. Mandating behavior? F dat You really get salty over some things. WTH is wrong with just observing and taking note that not everyone is going to follow orders? and you have the nerve to call others 'fascistic'?
Au contraire. I eat junk food and am overweight. I drink sugary soda, too. I have viewed porn. Though I don't partake, I support the freedom to smoke tobacco and I'm all for legalizing all drugs.
Should everyone aspire to be just like you? Favoring more control and deeply structured lives?
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Post by Prometheus on Jul 1, 2021 0:55:10 GMT
SMFH
OK Abs. You got me. I don't know how many people went "smokeless," I'm sure that in your mind that that somehow translates into "people won't eat healthier either, therefore we should just let them get fatter so at least we can make fun of them."
Let's not try to help people. Let's let them all wallow in their misery... as long as we are at least one rung above them socially... or one pound lighter than they are... or don't smoke... or don't drink.
It seems to me that you live a perfectly healthy life, free of the debaucheries other Americans are prone to... yet you're still an overnight clerk at a Kinko's (or whatever your drone job is). Everyone should aspire to be just like you: angry and uneducated.
What a wonderful world....
ummm, yeah! That's the whole point of personal freedom.
That depends on how you define 'help' and how far you're gonna push that agenda. Providing information? Sure. Mandating behavior? F dat You really get salty over some things. WTH is wrong with just observing and taking note that not everyone is going to follow orders? and you have the nerve to call others 'fascistic'?
Au contraire. I eat junk food and am overweight. I drink sugary soda, too. I have viewed porn. Though I don't partake, I support the freedom to smoke tobacco and I'm all for legalizing all drugs.
Should everyone aspire to be just like you? Favoring more control and deeply structured lives?
"Control"?
"Deeply structured"?
Do you think offering people free health care and a good education is somehow going to have everyone walking around like the workers in the movie, Metropolis?
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Post by abbey1227 on Jul 1, 2021 0:57:40 GMT
You're looking at the 'free' handouts as a blessing to the masses..........while ignoring the yoke you're placing around the neck of those ACTUALLY paying for it all.
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Post by Prometheus on Jul 1, 2021 3:27:02 GMT
You're looking at the 'free' handouts as a blessing to the masses..........while ignoring the yoke you're placing around the neck of those ACTUALLY paying for it all.
I'm trying to get more people healthy and into jobs so they can pay taxes and actually need fewer services.
You want America to run like a business, right? Well, you gotta spend money to make money.
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