The 1%

[Prometheus]

This is a number that gets tossed around quite a bit when people start talking about wealth inequality and such... especially when people are in the 99%. So I figured it bears looking into just a bit.

The figure isn't exactly monolithic. For example, in Mississippi, making at least $255k per year puts you in the 1% statewide. So, a married couple, both with senior manager or director positions could be 1%ers. Hell. A person with just a decent Amazon business could be a 1%er.

But in Connecticut, you have to be earning at least $700k.

In fact, the average minimum, annual income nationally to be in the 1% is a shade under $600k.

That tells us 2 things:

1. There are probably a lot of people who are in the 1% but think they're in the 99%

2. The "wealth gap" is as huge as people say it is.

"But, I live in Mississippi and make $253k, so I'm a 99%er" you say.

Yup but the average income for the 99% in Mississippi is just over $35k per year and those 99%ers in Connecticut average just under $68k.

In just about every state, the average salary for the 99% is 7 to 10 times smaller than the minimum salary necessary to be a 1%er. The MINIMUM. The average salaries of the 1%ers are 2 to 5 times higher than the minimums.

Something that's also fairly consistent is the percentage of college graduates: that is, the states with the highest minimums to be in the 1% and highest average salaries for the 99% also have the highest number of college graduates.

Some might say that having a college degree falsely inflates the value of an employee and I won't disagree. I've known plenty of idiots with degrees. What's worse is that it shows how much we undervalue the people who are actually getting the work done.

This isn't a jumping off point for talking about minimum wages. It's about discussing our lopsided views, our shitty educational system, and maybe why there's so much student debt.

I have to head to work... even though I'm pretty sure I'm a 1%er in this city....

[abbey1227]

May 9, 2021 1:46:45 GMT Prometheus said:

This is a number that gets tossed around quite a bit when people start talking about wealth inequality and such... especially when people are in the 99%. So I figured it bears looking into just a bit.

The figure isn't exactly monolithic. For example, in Mississippi, making at least $255k per year puts you in the 1% statewide. So, a married couple, both with senior manager or director positions could be 1%ers. Hell. A person with just a decent Amazon business could be a 1%er.

But in Connecticut, you have to be earning at least $700k.

In fact, the average minimum, annual income nationally to be in the 1% is a shade under $600k.

That tells us 2 things:

1. There are probably a lot of people who are in the 1% but think they're in the 99%

2. The "wealth gap" is as huge as people say it is.

"But, I live in Mississippi and make $253k, so I'm a 99%er" you say.

Yup but the average income for the 99% in Mississippi is just over $35k per year and those 99%ers in Connecticut average just under $68k.

In just about every state, the average salary for the 99% is 7 to 10 times smaller than the minimum salary necessary to be a 1%er. The MINIMUM. The average salaries of the 1%ers are 2 to 5 times higher than the minimums.

Something that's also fairly consistent is the percentage of college graduates: that is, the states with the highest minimums to be in the 1% and highest average salaries for the 99% also have the highest number of college graduates.

Some might say that having a college degree falsely inflates the value of an employee and I won't disagree. I've known plenty of idiots with degrees. What's worse is that it shows how much we undervalue the people who are actually getting the work done.

This isn't a jumping off point for talking about minimum wages. It's about discussing our lopsided views, our shitty educational system, and maybe why there's so much student debt.

I have to head to work... even though I'm pretty sure I'm a 1%er in this city....

Can you tell me how close I might be to being in the bottom 1%?   

I really liked that connect the dots you did with higher college grad numbers and student debt. The feminist I used to argue with non-stop seemed to match up to that very well........... over $70,000 in debt .........on an Art History degree.......... still living with Mom through necessity well into her 40s.

[Prometheus]

May 9, 2021 2:21:00 GMT abbey1227 said:

May 9, 2021 1:46:45 GMT Prometheus said:

This is a number that gets tossed around quite a bit when people start talking about wealth inequality and such... especially when people are in the 99%. So I figured it bears looking into just a bit.

The figure isn't exactly monolithic. For example, in Mississippi, making at least $255k per year puts you in the 1% statewide. So, a married couple, both with senior manager or director positions could be 1%ers. Hell. A person with just a decent Amazon business could be a 1%er.

But in Connecticut, you have to be earning at least $700k.

In fact, the average minimum, annual income nationally to be in the 1% is a shade under $600k.

That tells us 2 things:

1. There are probably a lot of people who are in the 1% but think they're in the 99%

2. The "wealth gap" is as huge as people say it is.

"But, I live in Mississippi and make $253k, so I'm a 99%er" you say.

Yup but the average income for the 99% in Mississippi is just over $35k per year and those 99%ers in Connecticut average just under $68k.

In just about every state, the average salary for the 99% is 7 to 10 times smaller than the minimum salary necessary to be a 1%er. The MINIMUM. The average salaries of the 1%ers are 2 to 5 times higher than the minimums.

Something that's also fairly consistent is the percentage of college graduates: that is, the states with the highest minimums to be in the 1% and highest average salaries for the 99% also have the highest number of college graduates.

Some might say that having a college degree falsely inflates the value of an employee and I won't disagree. I've known plenty of idiots with degrees. What's worse is that it shows how much we undervalue the people who are actually getting the work done.

This isn't a jumping off point for talking about minimum wages. It's about discussing our lopsided views, our shitty educational system, and maybe why there's so much student debt.

I have to head to work... even though I'm pretty sure I'm a 1%er in this city....

Can you tell me how close I might be to being in the bottom 1%?   

I really liked that connect the dots you did with higher college grad numbers and student debt. The feminist I used to argue with non-stop seemed to match up to that very well........... over $70,000 in debt .........on an Art History degree.......... still living with Mom through necessity well into her 40s.

Out of curiosity, I just looked up "what kinds of jobs can an art history major get?"

The list was pretty long but just about everything on the list was entry level grunt work: essentially "you can get any job you want as long as you're willing to spend time learning how to do things that have nothing to do with art or history."

Seriously, most of the stuff on the list would be open to anyone who completed any college's "core curriculum" which is pretty much the same as a 2 year stint at community college. And most of that could be completed by the end of high school if it had a good curriculum.

One of the jobs listed was, "Residential Counselor for a nonprofit serving people with physical disabilities"

That's a fancy way of saying, "Spend some time with grannies painting ceramics and don't let them wander off."

[abbey1227]

May 9, 2021 9:36:28 GMT Prometheus said:

Out of curiosity, I just looked up "what kinds of jobs can an art history major get?"

The list was pretty long but just about everything on the list was entry level grunt work: essentially "you can get any job you want as long as you're willing to spend time learning how to do things that have nothing to do with art or history."

Seriously, most of the stuff on the list would be open to anyone who completed any college's "core curriculum" which is pretty much the same as a 2 year stint at community college. And most of that could be completed by the end of high school if it had a good curriculum.

One of the jobs listed was, "Residential Counselor for a nonprofit serving people with physical disabilities"

That's a fancy way of saying, "Spend some time with grannies painting ceramics and don't let them wander off."

Sometimes your humor is so bleak.......... I love it.

Not sure if you'd agree with this......but my feeling is many people are not college material, nothing wrong with that. Or even some of the people that are college material, are not going to end up making any real amount of money off of their chosen field of study. So it's waste to go into debt on either of those 2 situations. As you've said, a higher quality high school may have prepared both groups of people to just plain get out there and start earning an income......... instead of pursuing that higher education with no commensurable payback.

That last part reminds me of the trend these days for lower and lower skilled people in nursing homes. The future for all these people thinking they'll be taken care of in the future is more bleak than your humor. Here's hoping robotics comes a very long way in the very near future.

[Prometheus]

May 9, 2021 12:14:41 GMT abbey1227 said:

May 9, 2021 9:36:28 GMT Prometheus said:

Out of curiosity, I just looked up "what kinds of jobs can an art history major get?"

The list was pretty long but just about everything on the list was entry level grunt work: essentially "you can get any job you want as long as you're willing to spend time learning how to do things that have nothing to do with art or history."

Seriously, most of the stuff on the list would be open to anyone who completed any college's "core curriculum" which is pretty much the same as a 2 year stint at community college. And most of that could be completed by the end of high school if it had a good curriculum.

One of the jobs listed was, "Residential Counselor for a nonprofit serving people with physical disabilities"

That's a fancy way of saying, "Spend some time with grannies painting ceramics and don't let them wander off."

Sometimes your humor is so bleak.......... I love it.

Not sure if you'd agree with this......but my feeling is many people are not college material, nothing wrong with that. Or even some of the people that are college material, are not going to end up making any real amount of money off of their chosen field of study. So it's waste to go into debt on either of those 2 situations. As you've said, a higher quality high school may have prepared both groups of people to just plain get out there and start earning an income......... instead of pursuing that higher education with no commensurable payback.

That last part reminds me of the trend these days for lower and lower skilled people in nursing homes. The future for all these people thinking they'll be taken care of in the future is more bleak than your humor. Here's hoping robotics comes a very long way in the very near future.

As I said before: I know plenty of idiots with degrees.

The problem goes back a ways to when ads for new employees started adding the old, "bachelor's degree required (or "preferred").

In '83 or '84 A friend of my brother's was a VP for a security company and I noticed they were advertising for an entry-level administrative position and the ad said, "Bachelor's degree required," so I asked him why a 22-year-old applicant, fresh out of college, with a degree in Philosophy would be preferred over a current employee with 22 years' experience.

He pondered for a moment, obviously caught off-guard by such a simple question, then explained that earning a degree showed that the applicant was "dedicated and hard-working."

"More dedicated and hard-working than the guy who has already proven those same values for 22 years?"

I was summarily dismissed as a "kid who doesn't understand anything."

He was my brother's friend and we were in my brother's house, so I reluctantly let the matter go, but I have kept my eye on the classified ever since - not daily, but you know what I mean - and I saw the phrase becoming more frequent, to the point where the only place I didn't see it was in ads for minimum wage jobs.

Then, over the years, I noticed a new phrase creeping in: "Master's degree preferred." It was obvious that the market had become so saturated with bachelor's degrees that, instead of looking for people with specific experience, employers simply decided to opt for people that had spent more time in school. I suspect that at some point - if there is no realization of the stupidity of this trend - we will start seeing, "Doctorate preferred" in employment ads.

That will be another boon to the post-graduate education industry as they start offering "super doctorate degrees" or whatever.

People value the degrees because they are valued by employers, and the only thing I can think of as a sort of rationalization is that some people KNOW that k - 12 is shit in the US and a college degree is proof that you finally got educationally straightened out and then possibly learned some extra specific information on a topic.

I think that's why most college students spend about 2 years of their college life going to "core curriculum" classes that cover the same stuff that was (or should have been) covered in high school. Why do college students have to take two more years of English, History, and Algebra classes?

1. To pad the pockets of the college

2. Because most US high schools are shit

Take a look at community colleges. All they really offer is a "trade school education" for office work or 2 years of covering core curriculum so that you can transfer into a 4-year college and start working on a major.

One of the reasons I was able to complete 2 bachelor's degrees simultaneously was because my high school AP course scores allowed me to skip a number of 100 and 200 level courses and start focusing on the majors early.

But even if we raise the level of our high schools to the point where completing a major can be accomplished in 2 or 3 years rather than 4, there will always be kids who just aren't "college material" and most of them know it, even if their parents don't. That's why we have to expand vo-tech education for manual trades and streamline community colleges for "office trades."

My ex-wife went to a vo-tech school. She started out in the "food handler" program but then found that she was drawn to the child-care program. After she graduated, she opened her own day-care business and started taking night courses at community college. Then she transferred into night courses for a 4-year degree in Early Childhood Education which she finally received after many years of hard work. Several years later, with online learning becoming a thing, she enrolled in a Master's program. It took several years because by that time she had her daycare center and a family to look after so she kept her course-load small, but she eventually got her Master's.

She's definitely an example of "bootstrapping" her education, but it didn't need to be so difficult... or necessary. What about becoming a plumber? Most states require a 2 to 6 year apprenticeship. If the vo-tech program IS the apprenticeship, students could potentially graduate with a diploma and a plumber's license so that they could get right to work making good money in a field that is in demand.

My brother studied marine engineering in college. When he graduated, he was also qualified as a master plumber, master electrician, and master HVAC specialist. If he didn't love being on the ocean so much, he could have taken any one of those licenses and made a good living for himself. OK. He's a Chief Engineer and makes $350k a year and only has to work 6 months a year, so he's doing well, but you get the idea.

I asked my daughter if she has plans to pursue a master's degree and she said that it's really not necessary unless she wants to move into administration... or unless the school board forces changes, so that's a "maybe later."

A good education is important but it doesn't have to be your only defining quality for employment above minimum wage.

If you (editorial "you") want America to be great again... if you want America to be first among the industrialized countries for something other than military might... if you want jobs to come back... you have to make education priority 1. It has to be high quality AND affordable... FREE straight from kindergarten to a bachelor's degree (in state universities and colleges). Once k - 12 is straightened out and workers are once again valued at that level of education, you might not have to worry about how much tax money needs to be spent on "free college." You could probably just make it free to those who score at a certain level on the entrance exam.

/Monday Morning Rant

[abbey1227]

May 10, 2021 5:18:56 GMT Prometheus said:

A good education is important but it doesn't have to be your only defining quality for employment above minimum wage.

If you (editorial "you") want America to be great again... if you want America to be first among the industrialized countries for something other than military might... if you want jobs to come back... you have to make education priority 1. It has to be high quality AND affordable... FREE straight from kindergarten to a bachelor's degree (in state universities and colleges). Once k - 12 is straightened out and workers are once again valued at that level of education, you might not have to worry about how much tax money needs to be spent on "free college." You could probably just make it free to those who score at a certain level on the entrance exam.

/Monday Morning Rant

one of your longer posts in awhile..........and I don't think I disagreed with any of it. Especially narrowing the 'free' continued ed to those who prove they really do want to proceed with it.

Just wanna add ............ education being a priority seems to me is almost an entirely parental thing. Yeah, kids are rebellious and immature..........but valuing that 'free' education begins at home. If the parents blow it off, then I suspect most of the kids will, too.

I won't even rip on some teachers in this post.

[Prometheus]

May 10, 2021 6:00:03 GMT abbey1227 said:

May 10, 2021 5:18:56 GMT Prometheus said:

A good education is important but it doesn't have to be your only defining quality for employment above minimum wage.

If you (editorial "you") want America to be great again... if you want America to be first among the industrialized countries for something other than military might... if you want jobs to come back... you have to make education priority 1. It has to be high quality AND affordable... FREE straight from kindergarten to a bachelor's degree (in state universities and colleges). Once k - 12 is straightened out and workers are once again valued at that level of education, you might not have to worry about how much tax money needs to be spent on "free college." You could probably just make it free to those who score at a certain level on the entrance exam.

/Monday Morning Rant

one of your longer posts in awhile..........and I don't think I disagreed with any of it. Especially narrowing the 'free' continued ed to those who prove they really do want to proceed with it.

Just wanna add ............ education being a priority seems to me is almost an entirely parental thing. Yeah, kids are rebellious and immature..........but valuing that 'free' education begins at home. If the parents blow it off, then I suspect most of the kids will, too.

I won't even rip on some teachers in this post.

Parents play a huge part. In some other post, I made a comment about how if all parents were "tiger moms" and all kids started doing really well in school, there would be a lot of pissed of Asians in the US.

[abbey1227]

May 10, 2021 7:02:39 GMT Prometheus said:

May 10, 2021 6:00:03 GMT abbey1227 said:

Parents play a huge part. In some other post, I made a comment about how if all parents were "tiger moms" and all kids started doing really well in school, there would be a lot of pissed of Asians in the US.

Seems like a semi-valid argument for continued self-segregation.........so as not to become held back by others.

[Prometheus]

May 10, 2021 7:13:36 GMT abbey1227 said:

May 10, 2021 7:02:39 GMT Prometheus said:

Parents play a huge part. In some other post, I made a comment about how if all parents were "tiger moms" and all kids started doing really well in school, there would be a lot of pissed of Asians in the US.

Seems like a semi-valid argument for continued self-segregation.........so as not to become held back by others.

"Stop appropriating our culture!" followed by "You never try to understand us!"