Side with the teacher

[Prometheus]

[abbey1227]

A lot to agree with there........except....... isn't that pretty much the complaints about public schools the last few decades has all added up to? And was roundly mocked by the more educated types?

Self-esteem over actual education has been the priority. That's how critical race theory and other such politicized nonsense has become part of the curriculum.

[Prometheus]

Apr 21, 2021 7:45:40 GMT abbey1227 said:

A lot to agree with there........except....... isn't that pretty much the complaints about public schools the last few decades has all added up to? And was roundly mocked by the more educated types?

Self-esteem over actual education has been the priority. That's how critical race theory and other such politicized nonsense has become part of the curriculum.

Too often people confuse "more educated" with "better-credentialed."

The whole "everyone's a winner" thing wasn't created in an academic vacuum. There were parents who had whining, crying losers at home to deal with and it was cutting into their scheduled "quality time."

Every parent knows that you have to let your kid win a game once in a while so that they'll keep trying to be better. Some parents let their kids win all the time and the kid never learns their own true abilities

Other kids don't know to let someone else win. That leads to a lot of little kids coming home and crying to parents who have neither the time nor inclination to deal with it. A couple clever (and greedy) PhD.'s write a couple quick books to mollify such parents and all of a sudden, you've got a movement. Once you have a movement, you have a lot of scared school boards which leads to a lot of scared administrators which leads to a lot of teachers wearing fake smiles and handing out participation trophies while proud parents look on... as long as they don't have somewhere more important to be.

Funny (sad) story:

Even though I'm currently working in a training center, I still give tests. A very upset parent cornered me wanting to know why their precious child had not received the highest mark in the class. I offered some platitudes about how the material was getting more difficult and "with a little hard work" sort of stuff, knowing all the while that her kid simply wasn't that bright. "But he is the best in his class!" mom pronounced.

A little fed up at being harangued in front of my staff as well as other parents, I asked, "Is he in Class 5?" A couple of the other parents (who happen to be public school teachers) laughed openly while the angry mom looked shocked and asked how I knew, which brought a few more laughs. I told her to ask the laughing parents and excused myself from the conversation.

I know you don't get the joke, so I'll explain: After a couple years of teaching in public schools, a couple things became very obvious:

1. The best and brightest students were always in Class 2 of their grade

2. The morons and troublemakers were always in Class 5... even if there were 7 or 8 class groups to a grade.

Get it now?

The mom never bothered me again - not even to apologize - but I heard from one of the other moms that "Angry Mom" was bothering the public school principal to move her "genius" to another class.

Anyway... rambling....

[abbey1227]

Apr 21, 2021 11:50:39 GMT Prometheus said:

I know you don't get the joke, so I'll explain: After a couple years of teaching in public schools, a couple things became very obvious:

1. The best and brightest students were always in Class 2 of their grade

2. The morons and troublemakers were always in Class 5... even if there were 7 or 8 class groups to a grade.

Get it now?

The mom never bothered me again - not even to apologize - but I heard from one of the other moms that "Angry Mom" was bothering the public school principal to move her "genius" to another class.

Anyway... rambling....

not rambling........just explaining in more detail

IIRC, the sheer amount/expense of Administrators in US schools has surpassed the teachers. That's a major problem, imo

And even though you've disagreed with me on video teaching in the past, it sure seems like covid made it all the more acceptable recently for most kids. (and teachers who don't seem to even wanna go back)

You may not even believe this....... and I fully understand why not....... but I sorta blew the curve in my graduating class when it came to the college testing/SATs

BUT...... I was always a poor student, not interested in homework or subjects that I found boring......som,etimes even just a personality conflict with the teacher was enough.

So, I've been of the opinion 'free' public school should always be looked at more as a type of marathon race......with those kids excelling, or at least constantly striving for improvement remaining all the way into 12th Grade. Those kids not cut out to be potential college material? Steer them towards a trade or just get them out in the work force by the age of 15-16.

These days if you change your mind and suddenly feel like education is more important, you can always pick up some online or go back.

Angry Mom should have been preparing Junior for something more befitting his abilities and efforts, imho 

[Prometheus]

Apr 21, 2021 12:13:50 GMT abbey1227 said:

Apr 21, 2021 11:50:39 GMT Prometheus said:

I know you don't get the joke, so I'll explain: After a couple years of teaching in public schools, a couple things became very obvious:

1. The best and brightest students were always in Class 2 of their grade

2. The morons and troublemakers were always in Class 5... even if there were 7 or 8 class groups to a grade.

Get it now?

The mom never bothered me again - not even to apologize - but I heard from one of the other moms that "Angry Mom" was bothering the public school principal to move her "genius" to another class.

Anyway... rambling....

not rambling........just explaining in more detail

IIRC, the sheer amount/expense of Administrators in US schools has surpassed the teachers. That's a major problem, imo

And even though you've disagreed with me on video teaching in the past, it sure seems like covid made it all the more acceptable recently for most kids. (and teachers who don't seem to even wanna go back)

You may not even believe this....... and I fully understand why not....... but I sorta blew the curve in my graduating class when it came to the college testing/SATs

BUT...... I was always a poor student, not interested in homework or subjects that I found boring......som,etimes even just a personality conflict with the teacher was enough.

So, I've been of the opinion 'free' public school should always be looked at more as a type of marathon race......with those kids excelling, or at least constantly striving for improvement remaining all the way into 12th Grade. Those kids not cut out to be potential college material? Steer them towards a trade or just get them out in the work force by the age of 15-16.

These days if you change your mind and suddenly feel like education is more important, you can always pick up some online or go back.

Angry Mom should have been preparing Junior for something more befitting his abilities and efforts, imho 

1. Thank you for being polite

2. The parents are behind that as well. The more they demand and the more they are offended, the more the school has to spend on administrative costs to protect itself

3. I understand the need for video teaching. I just don't like it for my style and I think I don't think it's the best option for... Class 5 kids, let's say. And teachers who are too lazy to enter a classroom shouldn't be teachers.

4. I've known kids who test well even though they are "poor students" and I've known good students who freeze like a deer in the headlights when a test sheet is put on their desks.

When I say, "morons," I'm talking about kids who literally can't fathom the concepts... even in their native language. It may not be the most PC thing to say - especially as a teacher - but it is what it is and sometimes you have to say things from your heart.

5. Remember when we took those tests in school that told you what sort of jobs you'd be good at? Do they do those anymore? I can't imagine so in the era of perpetual offendedness, but I think they should be given near the middle 9th grade and then the teachers and guidance counselors need to... guide certain students towards vo-tech schools for grades 10 - 12. But those vo-tech schools have got to be every inch providing a quality education in the trades.

The kids who stay in "regular" school then should be exposed to a real college prep curriculum. Call in some Jesuits to design it (minus the religious ed. parts).

China only guarantees education through grade 9 (but there's a shift to make it to 12). And I'll tell you right now, that the average grade 9 student here could blow away the average Grade 12 student in the US on core math, science, and native language skills. See my series on Chinese education for more info.

The kids who don't have what it takes (or maybe just the money it takes) to attend high school often go to vo-tech schools or just get straight into work. Sadly, trade work here - even highly-skilled trade work - doesn't pay well due to cultural perceptions, but it's a job.

6. In the case of wanting to get out of the trade-work and get back to school is an excellent application of distance learning because the students are self-motivated.

7. Angry Mom - like so many moms - can't see the forest for the trees where their child is involved. Even if they KNOW their child's limitations, they won't admit them in public... Face, dontcha know. They confront teachers so that the teacher will demure and offer a second chance at testing along with a promise that the child will do better. That may work with Chinese teachers who care about all that "face" shit, but it doesn't fly with me.