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Post by abbey1227 on Apr 18, 2021 0:53:21 GMT
The Telegraph
Spain acquits man of sexually abusing 14-year-old stepdaughter who gave birth to his childJames Badcock Fri, April 16, 2021, 8:36 AM Women during a protest in Pamplona in 2018 after five men, accused of gang raping a woman at Pamplona's bull-running festival, were sentenced to nine years in jail for sexual abuse, avoiding the more serious charge of rape - XABIER LERTXUNDI/AFPA Spanish court has provoked outrage by acquitting a man of sexually abusing his 14-year-old stepdaughter despite the fact she gave birth to his child. The Pamplona court accepted the defendant’s claim that the teenager had sat astride him while he was asleep on the sofa and engaged in penetrative sex. The man said he had no recollection of the supposed encounter as he had been very drunk that night. Close to nine months later, in December 2018, the girl was admitted to hospital and gave birth to a child, something the accused claimed had been a complete surprise to him and the girl’s mother. Social services ordered a paternity test, which confirmed that the stepfather was the father of the baby. The girl’s mother reported the father for alleged sexual abuse of her daughter, who initially said she had been raped in the street before changing her story to corroborate her stepfather’s claim that he had not been conscious when they had sex. The judges, sitting in the same Pamplona court that in 2018 sparked massive feminist protests when acquitting the “wolf pack” gang rapists who were later found guilty on appeal, said that there was insufficient evidence to convict the stepfather. However, the sentence also noted that the girl had “kept her head and eyes facing down” during the trial, “answering questions very briefly in a barely audible voice”. Altamira Gonzalo, vice-president of the Themis women jurists’ association, said the verdict “takes us back to the kind of sentences we used to see in Spain in the 1950s or 60s, when there was complete impunity for men in the family environment”. “The sentence beggars belief. The only thing the court valued is the accused’s right to the presumption of innocence. It has ignored its duty to protect a minor and the fact that the age of consent in Spain is 16,” Ms Gonzalo told The Telegraph. Spain’s parliament this week passed a new child protection law backed by NGOs such as Save the Children, which estimates that only 15 per cent of family abuse cases in Spain are reported. Cira García, a judge from one of Spain’s gender violence courts, said the sentence does not even consider the possibility that the girl may have changed her version of events in order to protect her stepfather. “We are sick of criticising that children’s testimony is often not given credibility and they are accused of lying in court, but here the girl’s word is accepted without question to absolve the accused, even though her account of events is absolutely implausible,” Ms García told the online newspaper Público.
I really believed I'd end up thinking one thing about this tale, but it ended up being the complete opposite this time around.
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Post by Prometheus on Apr 19, 2021 2:30:38 GMT
So... whaddaya think?
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Post by abbey1227 on Apr 19, 2021 15:31:55 GMT
at first, just from the headline........ I thought "How much more proof do you need than the actual love child's DNA?"
But the testimony that he wasn't even awake/conscious for the assault?
Now that takes it in a whole nother direction, don't it? Are we men responsible for our seed no matter the method of extraction?
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Post by Prometheus on Apr 20, 2021 2:35:23 GMT
at first, just from the headline........ I thought "How much more proof do you need than the actual love child's DNA?"
But the testimony that he wasn't even awake/conscious for the assault?
Now that takes it in a whole nother direction, don't it? Are we men responsible for our seed no matter the method of extraction?
Are you suggesting that the 14-year-old girl seduced her stepfather?
Are you suggesting that being blind drunk is some sort of "get out of jail free" card when it comes to responsibility?
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Post by abbey1227 on Apr 20, 2021 6:45:08 GMT
Are you suggesting that the 14-year-old girl seduced her stepfather?
Are you suggesting that being blind drunk is some sort of "get out of jail free" card when it comes to responsibility?
I'm not suggesting anything. They didn't show proof of a forced sexual event on that guy's part, did they?
I wouldn't excuse criminal behavior for people being drunk or drugged. Unlike a recent story I saw where someone was let off from throwing an elderly woman from a high rise because he was a pot smoker.....not an anti-semite.
As I said, initially I thought this would be an open and shut case with the baby's DNA..........but the Defense's argument is he was out while his penis was taken advantage of. You don't believe that story? I find it at least plausible.
Sorta makes it all the more important for actual rape victims to report the crime immediately........in this case and many others, it didn't happen. In fact, the changing story is what harmed the Prosecution's case.
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Post by Prometheus on Apr 20, 2021 7:18:52 GMT
Are you suggesting that the 14-year-old girl seduced her stepfather?
Are you suggesting that being blind drunk is some sort of "get out of jail free" card when it comes to responsibility?
I'm not suggesting anything. They didn't show proof of a forced sexual event on that guy's part, did they?
I wouldn't excuse criminal behavior for people being drunk or drugged. Unlike a recent story I saw where someone was let off from throwing an elderly woman from a high rise because he was a pot smoker.....not an anti-semite.
As I said, initially I thought this would be an open and shut case with the baby's DNA..........but the Defense's argument is he was out while his penis was taken advantage of. You don't believe that story? I find it at least plausible.
Sorta makes it all the more important for actual rape victims to report the crime immediately........in this case and many others, it didn't happen. In fact, the changing story is what harmed the Prosecution's case.
I'm not sure that "force" is a prerequisite in cases of statutory rape and, as far as I can tell, statutory rape really happened regardless of who initiated it.
The changing of the story could also be due to threats of physical abuse by the stepfather or simply from fear of being shamed by the community.
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Post by abbey1227 on Apr 20, 2021 7:33:55 GMT
I'm not sure that "force" is a prerequisite in cases of statutory rape and, as far as I can tell, statutory rape really happened regardless of who initiated it.
The changing of the story could also be due to threats of physical abuse by the stepfather or simply from fear of being shamed by the community.
Totally agree with all of that.......but do you think this was just an incredibly inventive defense? That a drunk guy couldn't possibly be raped? ....while every single drunk chick isn't even capable of giving consent?
I'm also recalling a story from years ago where a nurse impregnated herself after blowing a married doctor........and then sued for child support.
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Post by Prometheus on Apr 20, 2021 9:38:14 GMT
I'm not sure that "force" is a prerequisite in cases of statutory rape and, as far as I can tell, statutory rape really happened regardless of who initiated it.
The changing of the story could also be due to threats of physical abuse by the stepfather or simply from fear of being shamed by the community.
Totally agree with all of that.......but do you think this was just an incredibly inventive defense? That a drunk guy couldn't possibly be raped? ....while every single drunk chick isn't even capable of giving consent?
I'm also recalling a story from years ago where a nurse impregnated herself after blowing a married doctor........and then sued for child support.
Inventive? Yes.
Would it work in any society not already drowning in tar pit of machismo?
I don't think so.
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Post by abbey1227 on Apr 20, 2021 10:19:04 GMT
Totally agree with all of that.......but do you think this was just an incredibly inventive defense? That a drunk guy couldn't possibly be raped? ....while every single drunk chick isn't even capable of giving consent?
I'm also recalling a story from years ago where a nurse impregnated herself after blowing a married doctor........and then sued for child support.
Inventive? Yes.
Would it work in any society not already drowning in tar pit of machismo?
I don't think so.
I'm not even disagreeing.........but that seems a bit sexist on your part
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Post by Prometheus on Apr 20, 2021 15:58:06 GMT
Inventive? Yes.
Would it work in any society not already drowning in tar pit of machismo?
I don't think so.
I'm not even disagreeing.........but that seems a bit sexist on your part
The "Latin Machismo" trope is so old as to be almost cliche but that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. In fact, the article was quite clear about its ongoing effects, particularly in this case. ![[giveup]](//storage.proboards.com/7182076/images/FSYefibmKqtatIXMgHZg.gif) |
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Post by abbey1227 on Apr 21, 2021 1:44:43 GMT
I'm not even disagreeing.........but that seems a bit sexist on your part
The "Latin Machismo" trope is so old as to be almost cliche but that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. In fact, the article was quite clear about its ongoing effects, particularly in this case.
again, not disagreeing........... just reflecting on the modern day interpretation of 'equality'......... yet all of the remaining inequality.
Women are never at fault?.......and men are always at fault?........without even throwing in the newly arrived genders arguments. 
I may be applying the more US mindset that each case is supposed to be judged on it's own merits and kept separate from others......starting with the presumption of innocence for the accused. But it's not like that really exists here anymore either. |
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Post by Prometheus on Apr 21, 2021 2:07:53 GMT
The "Latin Machismo" trope is so old as to be almost cliche but that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. In fact, the article was quite clear about its ongoing effects, particularly in this case.
again, not disagreeing........... just reflecting on the modern day interpretation of 'equality'......... yet all of the remaining inequality.
Women are never at fault?.......and men are always at fault?........without even throwing in the newly arrived genders arguments.
I may be applying the more US mindset that each case is supposed to be judged on it's own merits and kept separate from others......starting with the presumption of innocence for the accused. But it's not like that really exists here anymore either. Men are not "always at fault," but the notion that a 14-year-old girl would have willingly had sex with her drunken step-father is kind of out there in the realm of possibilities... like 1 in ten million.
Yes, that leaves the possibility that she did, but without having been in the courtroom to hear all the evidence (and brushing up on my Spanish), I'm still going to come down on the side of, "Dude should have been locked up."
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Post by abbey1227 on Apr 21, 2021 2:18:27 GMT
Men are not "always at fault," but the notion that a 14-year-old girl would have willingly had sex with her drunken step-father is kind of out there in the realm of possibilities... like 1 in ten million.
Yes, that leaves the possibility that she did, but without having been in the courtroom to hear all the evidence (and brushing up on my Spanish), I'm still going to come down on the side of, "Dude should have been locked up."
soooooooooooo................... you're saying there's a chance?
The inventive defense merely gave me pause.........when I figured it was an open and shut case
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Post by Prometheus on Apr 21, 2021 2:38:16 GMT
Men are not "always at fault," but the notion that a 14-year-old girl would have willingly had sex with her drunken step-father is kind of out there in the realm of possibilities... like 1 in ten million.
Yes, that leaves the possibility that she did, but without having been in the courtroom to hear all the evidence (and brushing up on my Spanish), I'm still going to come down on the side of, "Dude should have been locked up."
soooooooooooo................... you're saying there's a chance?
The inventive defense merely gave me pause.........when I figured it was an open and shut case
There's a chance that a huge asteroid will hit the Earth today and destroy all life as we know it. I don't pause to think about it much. |
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![[giveup]](http://storage.proboards.com/7182076/images/FSYefibmKqtatIXMgHZg.gif)
![[cheers]](http://storage.proboards.com/7182076/images/engyBVslEdpmpmdnBwZQ.gif)
