Harsher Punishment? In This Era?

[Prometheus]

Apr 16, 2021 2:31:00 GMT abbey1227 said:

Apr 16, 2021 2:24:11 GMT Prometheus said:

Yes. The paramedics didn't have a required medicine in their ambulance. That's negligence. Do you expect paramedics to simply act as a taxi service, or do you expect them to be equipped (per regulations) with what they need in order to perform their jobs?

Also, did you read the part where she had already used her epi-pen to no avail because the reaction was so severe?

It's negligence when every possible cure isn't at hand? But it's not when the person or their family doesn't have it on themselves at all times? The lawyers are really outta control, imo.

Per regulations? That magical phrase that guarantees perfection........despite the truth that humanity is far from perfect. Hence, more lawsuits.

Once again, if she's that sensitive, why didn't SHE have the much more effective med on her person? Aren't the numbers around 400,000 US people per year dying because of medical mistakes? And those are often in non-emergency situations where seconds matter.

We will continue to disagree.......but the root of it is simply the expectation from Govt.  ............isn't it?

1. It's negligence when people don't do their jobs correctly and, again, the woman had and used her epi-pen but it was not effective, hence the paramedics were called.

2. See above

3. See above

4. Not all paramedics are government employees, but they are all subject to any government regulations regarding their jobs.

The only reason we will continue to disagree is because you continuously refuse to open your eyes to the facts... and logic.

I hope you are never in need of an ambulance only to find they forgot to stock bandages. Why didn't you have enough bandages in YOUR pocket in case you ever tripped and your hand landed on a shard of glass? If you bleed out before you get to the hospital, I'm betting your wife will be suing, even though it was YOUR OWN DAMN FAULT!

[Prometheus]

I just want to be clear, Abs. And I want it to be clear to you.

When you suggest that the woman HERSELF, should have had the necessary medicine on hand due to her known condition, you are saying that she needed to be walking around with a bag of a liquid solution, tubing, a pole to hang it from, a set of needles, and the ability to properly set up the bag and tubing and insert the needle into her vein all while gasping for air as she slowly suffocated to DEATH.

That's some RADICAL personal responsibility.

[abbey1227]

Apr 16, 2021 3:16:42 GMT Prometheus said:

1. It's negligence when people don't do their jobs correctly and, again, the woman had and used her epi-pen but it was not effective, hence the paramedics were called.

2. See above

3. See above

4. Not all paramedics are government employees, but they are all subject to any government regulations regarding their jobs.

The only reason we will continue to disagree is because you continuously refuse to open your eyes to the facts... and logic.

I hope you are never in need of an ambulance only to find they forgot to stock bandages. Why didn't you have enough bandages in YOUR pocket in case you ever tripped and your hand landed on a shard of glass? If you bleed out before you get to the hospital, I'm betting your wife will be suing, even though it was YOUR OWN DAMN FAULT!          I just want to be clear, Abs. And I want it to be clear to you.

When you suggest that the woman HERSELF, should have had the necessary medicine on hand due to her known condition, you are saying that she needed to be walking around with a bag of a liquid solution, tubing, a pole to hang it from, a set of needles, and the ability to properly set up the bag and tubing and insert the needle into her vein all while gasping for air as she slowly suffocated to DEATH.

That's some RADICAL personal responsibility.

You got someone with severe allergies in the family? WHEN did it become EVERYONE ELSE's responsibility to guarantee your safety 100% of the time when clearly.....even this young adult couldn't handle the responsibility for herself? She had a single epipen, but no Benadryl? Those precious seconds and minutes were everyone else's fault?

If you had a deathly serious allergy......you eating anything you didn't make yourself? You trusting friends or strangers to look after your safety when grabbing you a snack?

These medics? Did they have an ambulance full of every conceivable drug on hand? Or just a typical 1st Aid kit/Go Bags? They mentioned a 5 minute gap from them attending to her to call for an ambulance......well, how long did this supposed adult waste calling her Dad first? and waiting on her own epipen? How long does the average ambulance take to arrive? What if it takes 10 minutes to get thru a typical casino/convention hall? Is that entirely unacceptable now?

Their lawsuit mentions the drug was ONLY $2.42? So why didn't SHE have 10 doses in her purse? y'know.......just in case she was somewhere where whoever was offering her aid didn't have any?

I know someone that has similar problems with allergic reactions, they have flare-ups all the time from other peoples' hairspray or cologne even. Does this mean everyone should refrain from deodorants or perfeums because she's got the issues she has?

This specific case may not even be the most egregious one I've ever heard..........but it's been a decade's long trend of US ALL being responsible for everyone else. And I just disagree with that premise, sorry. They didn't do anything wrong, imo. They just didn't have the specific med she required at that moment and that's their fault? Cuz the State says so? Sorry, again.....this is just getting ridiculous.

What are the ramifications now to insurance companies and first responders? They gonna be sued out of existence? No gatherings will be allowed if there aren't the latest, greatest and all encompassing emergency care provided for by the event sponsor?

And all because someone had a severe allergy that they knew about? I wonder how she made it into her 20s  

[Prometheus]

Apr 16, 2021 12:22:02 GMT abbey1227 said:

Apr 16, 2021 3:16:42 GMT Prometheus said:

1. It's negligence when people don't do their jobs correctly and, again, the woman had and used her epi-pen but it was not effective, hence the paramedics were called.

2. See above

3. See above

4. Not all paramedics are government employees, but they are all subject to any government regulations regarding their jobs.

The only reason we will continue to disagree is because you continuously refuse to open your eyes to the facts... and logic.

I hope you are never in need of an ambulance only to find they forgot to stock bandages. Why didn't you have enough bandages in YOUR pocket in case you ever tripped and your hand landed on a shard of glass? If you bleed out before you get to the hospital, I'm betting your wife will be suing, even though it was YOUR OWN DAMN FAULT!          I just want to be clear, Abs. And I want it to be clear to you.

When you suggest that the woman HERSELF, should have had the necessary medicine on hand due to her known condition, you are saying that she needed to be walking around with a bag of a liquid solution, tubing, a pole to hang it from, a set of needles, and the ability to properly set up the bag and tubing and insert the needle into her vein all while gasping for air as she slowly suffocated to DEATH.

That's some RADICAL personal responsibility.

You got someone with severe allergies in the family? WHEN did it become EVERYONE ELSE's responsibility to guarantee your safety 100% of the time when clearly.....even this young adult couldn't handle the responsibility for herself? She had a single epipen, but no Benadryl? Those precious seconds and minutes were everyone else's fault?

If you had a deathly serious allergy......you eating anything you didn't make yourself? You trusting friends or strangers to look after your safety when grabbing you a snack?

These medics? Did they have an ambulance full of every conceivable drug on hand? Or just a typical 1st Aid kit/Go Bags? They mentioned a 5 minute gap from them attending to her to call for an ambulance......well, how long did this supposed adult waste calling her Dad first? and waiting on her own epipen? How long does the average ambulance take to arrive? What if it takes 10 minutes to get thru a typical casino/convention hall? Is that entirely unacceptable now?

Their lawsuit mentions the drug was ONLY $2.42? So why didn't SHE have 10 doses in her purse? y'know.......just in case she was somewhere where whoever was offering her aid didn't have any?

I know someone that has similar problems with allergic reactions, they have flare-ups all the time from other peoples' hairspray or cologne even. Does this mean everyone should refrain from deodorants or perfeums because she's got the issues she has?

This specific case may not even be the most egregious one I've ever heard..........but it's been a decade's long trend of US ALL being responsible for everyone else. And I just disagree with that premise, sorry. They didn't do anything wrong, imo. They just didn't have the specific med she required at that moment and that's their fault? Cuz the State says so? Sorry, again.....this is just getting ridiculous.

What are the ramifications now to insurance companies and first responders? They gonna be sued out of existence? No gatherings will be allowed if there aren't the latest, greatest and all encompassing emergency care provided for by the event sponsor?

And all because someone had a severe allergy that they knew about? I wonder how she made it into her 20s  

You: people are fallible

You: people are supposed to be infallible when I don't like their stories.

BTW, anaphylaxis is outrageously common, whether it be from food allergies (known or unknown) or from insect bites/stings, which is why the medication is REQUIRED to be stocked by paramedics.*

If I ended up a quadriplegic and brain damaged from a bee sting simply because the paramedics failed to stock the medicine they're supposed to have on board, I hope to god that my daughter (or whoever is going to take care of my medical bills) sues the shit out of the ambulance company.

Interestingly, paramedics in areas where rattlesnakes are prevalent are required to carry anti-venom in their ambulances. However, they are not required to carry anti-venom for poisonous snakes that aren't indigenous to the area.

Go figure.

[abbey1227]

Apr 16, 2021 16:34:49 GMT Prometheus said:

You: people are fallible

You: people are supposed to be infallible when I don't like their stories.

BTW, anaphylaxis is outrageously common, whether it be from food allergies (known or unknown) or from insect bites/stings, which is why the medication is REQUIRED to be stocked by paramedics.*

If I ended up a quadriplegic and brain damaged from a bee sting simply because the paramedics failed to stock the medicine they're supposed to have on board, I hope to god that my daughter (or whoever is going to take care of my medical bills) sues the shit out of the ambulance company.

Interestingly, paramedics in areas where rattlesnakes are prevalent are required to carry anti-venom in their ambulances. However, they are not required to carry anti-venom for poisonous snakes that aren't indigenous to the area.

Go figure.

You: Govt providers should not be fallible in any way

You: All the people relying on said Govt should be allowed to be as fallible as can be

My age is showing or something........ I don't believe allergic reactions used to be nearly as common just a few decades ago. Maybe people just died much younger back then, thus we didn't hear about it more often later in their lives?

Our next conversation may be over a few stories about how inept care facilities are in the US and the monumental waste of tax dollars it has become. 

Well then, I think they should be required by regulation to carry ALL kinds of anti-venom.......just in case. Otherwise, sue the shit outta them.

[Prometheus]

Apr 17, 2021 0:24:06 GMT abbey1227 said:

Apr 16, 2021 16:34:49 GMT Prometheus said:

You: people are fallible

You: people are supposed to be infallible when I don't like their stories.

BTW, anaphylaxis is outrageously common, whether it be from food allergies (known or unknown) or from insect bites/stings, which is why the medication is REQUIRED to be stocked by paramedics.*

If I ended up a quadriplegic and brain damaged from a bee sting simply because the paramedics failed to stock the medicine they're supposed to have on board, I hope to god that my daughter (or whoever is going to take care of my medical bills) sues the shit out of the ambulance company.

Interestingly, paramedics in areas where rattlesnakes are prevalent are required to carry anti-venom in their ambulances. However, they are not required to carry anti-venom for poisonous snakes that aren't indigenous to the area.

Go figure.

You: Govt providers should not be fallible in any way

You: All the people relying on said Govt should be allowed to be as fallible as can be

My age is showing or something........ I don't believe allergic reactions used to be nearly as common just a few decades ago. Maybe people just died much younger back then, thus we didn't hear about it more often later in their lives?

Our next conversation may be over a few stories about how inept care facilities are in the US and the monumental waste of tax dollars it has become. 

Well then, I think they should be required by regulation to carry ALL kinds of anti-venom.......just in case. Otherwise, sue the shit outta them.

1 & 2. People and their governments are fallible. I want them held RESPONSIBLE. I would have thought that you would want them held RESPONSIBLE as well

3. Allergic reactions to insect bites and stings seem to be at about the rate I remember them, but food allergies seem to be on the rise based on past recollections. BUT, back then, most of us brown-bagged it. If a classmate had a food allergy, we probably wouldn't have known about it because he had nothing in his/her bag that was worth trading for.

4. Yeah. Imagine how much better they'd be if they had to answer to a SINGLE-PAYER

5. You just can't admit the paramedics fucked up, can you?