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Post by abbey1227 on Apr 14, 2021 9:08:13 GMT
Yahoo Sports
'What a bunch of B.S.': Ariel Young's family angry at 'slap on the wrist' charges filed against Britt ReidDan Wetzel·Columnist Tue, April 13, 2021, 11:16 AM When it came to raising Ariel Young, the challenge was almost always the same — containing her, corralling her. She was 5 years old and full of life, a free spirit always looking to run and play. Big smiles. Bigger energy. Ariel was joy; personified. She was en route, all who knew her agreed, to one heck of a life. Today she can’t walk. She can’t talk. She is fed via a gastrostomy tube that connects into her stomach. When her mother, Felicia Miller, speaks, it appears Ariel recognizes her voice, but that's about it. Ariel’s life changed forever on Feb. 4, when Britt Reid, then a Kansas City Chief assistant coach, decided, local prosecutors allege, to get drunk and drive home from work. Just moments into the commute, he slammed into two vehicles parked on the side of I-435 near the end of an onramp. Ariel was in the backseat of one of them. She suffered a severe brain injury, a fractured skull, brain contusions and subdural hematomas, according to court documents. It took weeks to awaken from the coma. There is no timetable on anything close to a recovery. It could be years. It could be never. So when Jackson County, Missouri, prosecutors charged Reid on Monday with a Class D felony of driving while intoxicated, the family felt little to no relief. Reid quickly posted the $100,000 bond and walked free. If he’s found guilty, the penalties seem painfully light to the family — a sentence of 1-7 years of incarceration (potentially just one year at the county jail) and a $10,000 fine. “What a bunch of B.S.,” said Tiffany Verhulst, a family member who set up a GoFundMe page for Ariel’s care. “We wish for harsher charges.” Prosecutor Jean Peters Baker sympathized and pointed at limitations with the law. According to Missouri statutes, for Reid to qualify for a Class C felony, he would have needed to cause death to a victim, injury to law enforcement or emergency personnel, or be labeled a “chronic” offender which, generally speaking, requires four or more intoxication-related traffic incidents. That would have upped the sentencing range to 3-10 years. Baker promised that her office “will vigorously pursue” the charges it can and tried to reassure that Reid is not receiving “favorable treatment.” The family’s attorney, Tom Porto, told local media that prosecutors charged Reid with what they could, given the restrictions of the state law. Local attorneys who focus on DWI laws concurred. Even though multiple vehicles were hit and multiple people were injured (both Miller and her sister who was with her, Angela Saenz, also lost consciousness in the crash) Missouri law considers it just one incident and thus just one crime to charge. That isn’t the case everywhere. “If this was [across the border] in Kansas, I bet there’d be multiple felony battery charges,” said Chris Scott, a former local prosecutor and now defense attorney for the Christopher Scott Law Offices in Kansas City.
Is this some sorta privilege? Or merely a display of the advantages of actually showing up for court?
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Post by ant-mac on Apr 14, 2021 11:06:38 GMT
Yahoo Sports
'What a bunch of B.S.': Ariel Young's family angry at 'slap on the wrist' charges filed against Britt ReidDan Wetzel·Columnist Tue, April 13, 2021, 11:16 AM When it came to raising Ariel Young, the challenge was almost always the same — containing her, corralling her. She was 5 years old and full of life, a free spirit always looking to run and play. Big smiles. Bigger energy. Ariel was joy; personified. She was en route, all who knew her agreed, to one heck of a life. Today she can’t walk. She can’t talk. She is fed via a gastrostomy tube that connects into her stomach. When her mother, Felicia Miller, speaks, it appears Ariel recognizes her voice, but that's about it. Ariel’s life changed forever on Feb. 4, when Britt Reid, then a Kansas City Chief assistant coach, decided, local prosecutors allege, to get drunk and drive home from work. Just moments into the commute, he slammed into two vehicles parked on the side of I-435 near the end of an onramp. Ariel was in the backseat of one of them. She suffered a severe brain injury, a fractured skull, brain contusions and subdural hematomas, according to court documents. It took weeks to awaken from the coma. There is no timetable on anything close to a recovery. It could be years. It could be never. So when Jackson County, Missouri, prosecutors charged Reid on Monday with a Class D felony of driving while intoxicated, the family felt little to no relief. Reid quickly posted the $100,000 bond and walked free. If he’s found guilty, the penalties seem painfully light to the family — a sentence of 1-7 years of incarceration (potentially just one year at the county jail) and a $10,000 fine. “What a bunch of B.S.,” said Tiffany Verhulst, a family member who set up a GoFundMe page for Ariel’s care. “We wish for harsher charges.” Prosecutor Jean Peters Baker sympathized and pointed at limitations with the law. According to Missouri statutes, for Reid to qualify for a Class C felony, he would have needed to cause death to a victim, injury to law enforcement or emergency personnel, or be labeled a “chronic” offender which, generally speaking, requires four or more intoxication-related traffic incidents. That would have upped the sentencing range to 3-10 years. Baker promised that her office “will vigorously pursue” the charges it can and tried to reassure that Reid is not receiving “favorable treatment.” The family’s attorney, Tom Porto, told local media that prosecutors charged Reid with what they could, given the restrictions of the state law. Local attorneys who focus on DWI laws concurred. Even though multiple vehicles were hit and multiple people were injured (both Miller and her sister who was with her, Angela Saenz, also lost consciousness in the crash) Missouri law considers it just one incident and thus just one crime to charge. That isn’t the case everywhere. “If this was [across the border] in Kansas, I bet there’d be multiple felony battery charges,” said Chris Scott, a former local prosecutor and now defense attorney for the Christopher Scott Law Offices in Kansas City.
Is this some sorta privilege? Or merely a display of the advantages of actually showing up for court?
It looks more like a case of inadequate and insufficient state laws to deal with the situation. Especially as the defendant appears to have a criminal history and a history of substance abuse. |
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Post by Prometheus on Apr 14, 2021 11:30:40 GMT
Like Ant said, it's about inadequate laws.
I wonder how much they'll get in the inevitable civil suit....
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Post by abbey1227 on Apr 14, 2021 11:34:31 GMT
It looks more like a case of inadequate and insufficient state laws to deal with the situation. Especially as the defendant appears to have a criminal history and a history of substance abuse.
So........ in this era of demanding the police back off and stop even trying to arrest people? .........some people wanna see harsher laws?
Don't misunderstand me...... I'm the harsh punisher. Guy causes death or damage while drunk/drugged driving? Throw the book at him!
But I'm just wondering about the inconsistencies I'm seeing yet again from people......from the media.......from the courts, etc
What makes these 'inadequate and insufficient state laws' though? Plenty of laws and punishments fail to keep people from doing the crime, much less repeating them.
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Post by abbey1227 on Apr 14, 2021 11:37:04 GMT
Like Ant said, it's about inadequate laws. I wonder how much they'll get in the inevitable civil suit....
All depends on who gets named 'responsible in that suit....... just Reid? his insurance co? Daddy? the KC Chiefs? the alcohol manufacturer? (any more you can think of?)
I just saw a suit of about $30 Million for a woman who ate a pretzel with peanut butter.......and she was allergic
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Post by ant-mac on Apr 14, 2021 12:06:58 GMT
It looks more like a case of inadequate and insufficient state laws to deal with the situation. Especially as the defendant appears to have a criminal history and a history of substance abuse.
So........ in this era of demanding the police back off and stop even trying to arrest people? .........some people wanna see harsher laws?
Don't misunderstand me...... I'm the harsh punisher. Guy causes death or damage while drunk/drugged driving? Throw the book at him!
But I'm just wondering about the inconsistencies I'm seeing yet again from people......from the media.......from the courts, etc
What makes these 'inadequate and insufficient state laws' though? Plenty of laws and punishments fail to keep people from doing the crime, much less repeating them.
Adequate and sufficient laws does not necessarily equate to harsh or unreasonable ones. If you drink, get behind the wheel of a motor vehicle and then proceed to destroy a child's life, you have to expect something more than just a slap on the wrist and a free beer. |
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Post by abbey1227 on Apr 14, 2021 12:24:26 GMT
Adequate and sufficient laws does not necessarily equate to harsh or unreasonable ones. If you drink, get behind the wheel of a motor vehicle and then proceed to destroy a child's life, you have to expect something more than just a slap on the wrist and a free beer.
why?
Especially in the US
(I didn't even offer up the 'It's a disease!' argument)
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Post by ant-mac on Apr 14, 2021 12:31:38 GMT
Adequate and sufficient laws does not necessarily equate to harsh or unreasonable ones. If you drink, get behind the wheel of a motor vehicle and then proceed to destroy a child's life, you have to expect something more than just a slap on the wrist and a free beer.
why?
Especially in the US
(I didn't even offer up the 'It's a disease!' argument) Justice. America isn't the only country confronted with this problem. And the cure begins by him taking personal responsibility for his actions. |
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Post by abbey1227 on Apr 14, 2021 12:39:21 GMT
Justice. America isn't the only country confronted with this problem. And the cure begins by him taking personal responsibility for his actions.
Justice may be as hard a thing to define these days as 'moral'
Of course not..........people are people everywhere....... and there's always a percentage that shit on others
He showed up to court, that's a good start..........as opposed to avoiding it, having a warrant issued and then resisting arrest, right? See the overlying issue?
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Post by ant-mac on Apr 14, 2021 13:03:34 GMT
Justice. America isn't the only country confronted with this problem. And the cure begins by him taking personal responsibility for his actions.
Justice may be as hard a thing to define these days as 'moral'
Of course not..........people are people everywhere....... and there's always a percentage that shit on others
He showed up to court, that's a good start..........as opposed to avoiding it, having a warrant issued and then resisting arrest, right? See the overlying issue?
1. Doesn't mean we shouldn't try. 2. Yeah... Human nature. 3. It is... but that's only the beginning of the process. That he won't do himself any harm by playing ball with the authorities? I know the authorities have more on their plate than they can hope to deal with... and as a consequence, they appreciate and take note of anyone who makes their job easier. Once again... Human nature. |
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Post by Prometheus on Apr 15, 2021 2:14:42 GMT
It looks more like a case of inadequate and insufficient state laws to deal with the situation. Especially as the defendant appears to have a criminal history and a history of substance abuse.
So........ in this era of demanding the police back off and stop even trying to arrest people? .........some people wanna see harsher laws?
Don't misunderstand me...... I'm the harsh punisher. Guy causes death or damage while drunk/drugged driving? Throw the book at him!
But I'm just wondering about the inconsistencies I'm seeing yet again from people......from the media.......from the courts, etc
What makes these 'inadequate and insufficient state laws' though? Plenty of laws and punishments fail to keep people from doing the crime, much less repeating them.
1. You're conflating issues. I don't know that people want the police to stop arresting people. I think they'd like to see the police do it responsibly. Look at the Floyd case. Was he resisting arrest? It certainly seems he was. However, was it necessary to kneel on his neck for 9 minutes in order to subdue him? I'm not so sure. Speaking to the "other side," sometimes the police will have to resort to violence to force compliance. Think of it as the question of, "When does a spanking become 'child abuse'?" and then keep in mind which person you are in the scenario to realize how your opinions and perceptions are going to differ.
But even the "never spank" crowd admits that there must be punishment.
As a society we need to find the balance, accept it, and move on.
2. People are always going to be inconsistent because they're people. The media is always going to do what they need to do in order to attract advertisers. Hopefully the courts will administer justice. That said...
3. The "inadequacies" shown in the article are that: a. The law doesn't allow for multiple counts to be charged b. The punishment for the single charge seems a bit light based on the results of the bad action. That said, had the bad action resulted in a couple of bruises, one might think that a $10k fine and a year in jail is a bit over the top, because as you say, it's not going to prevent others from driving drunk and may not even change the future actions of the accused.
There are many inadequacies and faults in our system of law and order, including (but not limited to): institutionalized racism (not all arrests are evidence of this despite what BLM says but it does exist), prosecutorial misconduct, the bail/bond system, mandatory sentencing laws, a dearth of public defenders, and a whole bunch of silly laws that probably seemed OK when they were adopted but have shown that they miss the mark at providing justice.
That's why there are law libraries that can fill entire buildings.
We could just subsume all state lawmaking under the federal system in order to clear up a bunch of this stuff, but I'm sure you'd balk at that solution, as would I, but something has to be done.
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Post by Prometheus on Apr 15, 2021 2:22:42 GMT
Like Ant said, it's about inadequate laws. I wonder how much they'll get in the inevitable civil suit....
All depends on who gets named 'responsible in that suit....... just Reid? his insurance co? Daddy? the KC Chiefs? the alcohol manufacturer? (any more you can think of?)
I just saw a suit of about $30 Million for a woman who ate a pretzel with peanut butter.......and she was allergic
I'm OK with that one. It might be a tad high, but not much.
It certainly seems that the paramedics were negligent.
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Post by abbey1227 on Apr 15, 2021 11:52:42 GMT
I'm OK with that one. It might be a tad high, but not much.
It certainly seems that the paramedics were negligent.
if you agree with the premise that all paramedics and ambulances should have all of the possible medications for every possible affliction with them at all times?
Me, personally? I feel if YOU have a horrific allergy that's life threatening at any moment, then maybe it's your responsibility to carry whatever cures you might need.
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Post by abbey1227 on Apr 15, 2021 12:03:15 GMT
1. You're conflating issues. I don't know that people want the police to stop arresting people. I think they'd like to see the police do it responsibly. Look at the Floyd case. Was he resisting arrest? It certainly seems he was. However, was it necessary to kneel on his neck for 9 minutes in order to subdue him? I'm not so sure. Speaking to the "other side," sometimes the police will have to resort to violence to force compliance. Think of it as the question of, "When does a spanking become 'child abuse'?" and then keep in mind which person you are in the scenario to realize how your opinions and perceptions are going to differ. But even the "never spank" crowd admits that there must be punishment. As a society we need to find the balance, accept it, and move on.
2. People are always going to be inconsistent because they're people. The media is always going to do what they need to do in order to attract advertisers. Hopefully the courts will administer justice. That said...
3. The "inadequacies" shown in the article are that: a. The law doesn't allow for multiple counts to be charged b. The punishment for the single charge seems a bit light based on the results of the bad action. That said, had the bad action resulted in a couple of bruises, one might think that a $10k fine and a year in jail is a bit over the top, because as you say, it's not going to prevent others from driving drunk and may not even change the future actions of the accused.
There are many inadequacies and faults in our system of law and order, including (but not limited to): institutionalized racism (not all arrests are evidence of this despite what BLM says but it does exist), prosecutorial misconduct, the bail/bond system, mandatory sentencing laws, a dearth of public defenders, and a whole bunch of silly laws that probably seemed OK when they were adopted but have shown that they miss the mark at providing justice. That's why there are law libraries that can fill entire buildings.
We could just subsume all state lawmaking under the federal system in order to clear up a bunch of this stuff, but I'm sure you'd balk at that solution, as would I, but something has to be done.
Many individuals have started implying that the police shouldn't be arresting people for what they consider to be minor crimes.....they even wish others would stop calling the police.
The Floyd case is an interesting one in that it seems EVERYONE agreed at the beginning that he should not have been knelt on for that long once he was on the ground and cuffed. Punishment was sure to arrive for that officer, imo......but then the rioting and torching of public and private buildings?
I think 'as a society' we're further from agreeing on anything than at any time previous. Thanks media and political parties.
Yep, people are always going to be people. And they usually suck a bag-a-dicks
3. It seems we have 50 separate States that choose to pick the laws that work best for them. What good does it even do to insist all 50 behave the same when time and again we're given excuses and reasons why defendants mustn't be judged all the same? We can't even get equal justice given to both genders (Not even mentioning the myriad of new genders)
Yes, something must be done.  |
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Post by Prometheus on Apr 15, 2021 14:36:41 GMT
I'm OK with that one. It might be a tad high, but not much.
It certainly seems that the paramedics were negligent.
if you agree with the premise that all paramedics and ambulances should have all of the possible medications for every possible affliction with them at all times?
Me, personally? I feel if YOU have a horrific allergy that's life threatening at any moment, then maybe it's your responsibility to carry whatever cures you might need.
I guess you didn't read the article. |
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Post by Prometheus on Apr 15, 2021 14:48:07 GMT
1. You're conflating issues. I don't know that people want the police to stop arresting people. I think they'd like to see the police do it responsibly. Look at the Floyd case. Was he resisting arrest? It certainly seems he was. However, was it necessary to kneel on his neck for 9 minutes in order to subdue him? I'm not so sure. Speaking to the "other side," sometimes the police will have to resort to violence to force compliance. Think of it as the question of, "When does a spanking become 'child abuse'?" and then keep in mind which person you are in the scenario to realize how your opinions and perceptions are going to differ. But even the "never spank" crowd admits that there must be punishment. As a society we need to find the balance, accept it, and move on.
2. People are always going to be inconsistent because they're people. The media is always going to do what they need to do in order to attract advertisers. Hopefully the courts will administer justice. That said...
3. The "inadequacies" shown in the article are that: a. The law doesn't allow for multiple counts to be charged b. The punishment for the single charge seems a bit light based on the results of the bad action. That said, had the bad action resulted in a couple of bruises, one might think that a $10k fine and a year in jail is a bit over the top, because as you say, it's not going to prevent others from driving drunk and may not even change the future actions of the accused.
There are many inadequacies and faults in our system of law and order, including (but not limited to): institutionalized racism (not all arrests are evidence of this despite what BLM says but it does exist), prosecutorial misconduct, the bail/bond system, mandatory sentencing laws, a dearth of public defenders, and a whole bunch of silly laws that probably seemed OK when they were adopted but have shown that they miss the mark at providing justice. That's why there are law libraries that can fill entire buildings.
We could just subsume all state lawmaking under the federal system in order to clear up a bunch of this stuff, but I'm sure you'd balk at that solution, as would I, but something has to be done.
Many individuals have started implying that the police shouldn't be arresting people for what they consider to be minor crimes.....they even wish others would stop calling the police.
The Floyd case is an interesting one in that it seems EVERYONE agreed at the beginning that he should not have been knelt on for that long once he was on the ground and cuffed. Punishment was sure to arrive for that officer, imo......but then the rioting and torching of public and private buildings?
I think 'as a society' we're further from agreeing on anything than at any time previous. Thanks media and political parties.
Yep, people are always going to be people. And they usually suck a bag-a-dicks
3. It seems we have 50 separate States that choose to pick the laws that work best for them. What good does it even do to insist all 50 behave the same when time and again we're given excuses and reasons why defendants mustn't be judged all the same? We can't even get equal justice given to both genders (Not even mentioning the myriad of new genders)
Yes, something must be done. 1. Those shop owners? I'm not sure they come close to representing anything other than a fringe group.
2. I'm not sure what the actions of others after the incident. Do you think that the riots will cause a jury to give the cop a pass?
3. Yup. And most people seem to prefer being disagreeable these days.
4. 'Xactly
5. Like I said, it probably seemed like a good law at the time....
3.
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Post by abbey1227 on Apr 16, 2021 2:18:37 GMT
if you agree with the premise that all paramedics and ambulances should have all of the possible medications for every possible affliction with them at all times?
Me, personally? I feel if YOU have a horrific allergy that's life threatening at any moment, then maybe it's your responsibility to carry whatever cures you might need.
I guess you didn't read the article.
Morris argued that neither of the medics had intravenous epinephrine, which is required by the Southern Nevada Health District, according to the Associated Press. While the medics used intramuscular epinephrine, intravenous epinephrine is needed when a patient has already entered full anaphylaxis, the outlet reported.
There it is.........that expectation put on others. It's an argument/opinion. Mine differs
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Post by abbey1227 on Apr 16, 2021 2:20:55 GMT
1. Those shop owners? I'm not sure they come close to representing anything other than a fringe group.
2. I'm not sure what the actions of others after the incident. Do you think that the riots will cause a jury to give the cop a pass?
3. Yup. And most people seem to prefer being disagreeable these days.
4. 'Xactly
5. Like I said, it probably seemed like a good law at the time....
3.
2. Yes, the threat of violence and harm is very present even now.
3. So they're more like me now?
5. How often does it need to go badly, or just ineffective, before people admit the failure?
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Post by Prometheus on Apr 16, 2021 2:24:11 GMT
I guess you didn't read the article.
Morris argued that neither of the medics had intravenous epinephrine, which is required by the Southern Nevada Health District, according to the Associated Press. While the medics used intramuscular epinephrine, intravenous epinephrine is needed when a patient has already entered full anaphylaxis, the outlet reported.
There it is.........that expectation put on others. It's an argument/opinion. Mine differs
Yes. The paramedics didn't have a required medicine in their ambulance. That's negligence. Do you expect paramedics to simply act as a taxi service, or do you expect them to be equipped (per regulations) with what they need in order to perform their jobs? Also, did you read the part where she had already used her epi-pen to no avail because the reaction was so severe? |
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Post by abbey1227 on Apr 16, 2021 2:31:00 GMT
Yes. The paramedics didn't have a required medicine in their ambulance. That's negligence. Do you expect paramedics to simply act as a taxi service, or do you expect them to be equipped (per regulations) with what they need in order to perform their jobs? Also, did you read the part where she had already used her epi-pen to no avail because the reaction was so severe?
It's negligence when every possible cure isn't at hand? But it's not when the person or their family doesn't have it on themselves at all times? The lawyers are really outta control, imo.
Per regulations? That magical phrase that guarantees perfection........despite the truth that humanity is far from perfect. Hence, more lawsuits.
Once again, if she's that sensitive, why didn't SHE have the much more effective med on her person? Aren't the numbers around 400,000 US people per year dying because of medical mistakes? And those are often in non-emergency situations where seconds matter.
We will continue to disagree.......but the root of it is simply the expectation from Govt. ............isn't it?
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