Rant: $15/hr minimum wage and the hypocrisy of its champions

[Prometheus]

Sometimes, you just hear something and the neurons start firing into all sorts of directions and you end up angry.

Welcome!

I just want to talk about one industry here for a moment: the movie industry.

When you go to the cinema, you fork out money for a ticket then you get gouged at the snack bar. Everybody knows this and therefore lots of people try to sneak snacks into the theater so they don't have to pay $8 for a huge tub of popcorn and $6 for a soda. The hypocrisy comes when these same rule-breakers then bitch and moan that the minimum wage needs to be increased to $15 an hour.

Let's look at some facts and some math. I'll be using some rounded figures for certain things just to keep the math easy.

Fact: 70% of the ticket price goes right back to the distributor and studio and anyone else involved. The cinema gets to keep 30%.

Some of you might be thinking that 30% is a good margin, but it's not because that's not the actual margin that defines a profit. That 30% is what the cinema gets to use to start paying their expenses: rent, utilities, equipment purchase and maintenance, insurance, and, of course, staff wages and salaries.

Let's say a ticket costs $10 (Yes. YMMV) but we're trying to keep the math simple. That means that the cinema keeps $3/ticket.

At any given time, there are probably a minimum of 4 hourly positions being staffed (ticket seller, snack seller, ticket taker, cleaner)

If we assume that these 4 people are "woefully underpaid" at $10/hour then the cost to the cinema is $320 for an 8 hour shift. That doesn't seem like much, but it does mean that 107 tickets need to be sold in that time to pay for their work alone. We still haven't taken into account the manager's salary, rent, utilities, etc.

And we all know (intelligent people that is) and understand that this is why the snacks cost so damn much. An $8 tub of popcorn is actually $7 worth of "profit" and the theater needs only to sell 46 tubs to pay for the workers for 8 hours.

And again, we still aren't counting in any of the other things.

Now if we increase the wages to $15/hr (half again on top) all of the other sales requirements go up by half again as well: you need to sell 160 tickets or 69 tubs of popcorn.

"No problem" you say as even a small cinema with 4 theaters can generate 160 ticket sales a day. Let's see.

4 theaters = 3 movies per 8 hours each is 12 viewings. 160/12 is 13 and change people per theater per viewing. but we only needed 9 before.

Great! Staffing is paid for by ticket sales.

Wait! I forgot to add the "burden." For those unfamiliar with the term, "burden" applies to all the costs associated with hiring and training an employee as well as the costs of accountants to calculate pay, deduct taxes, pay unemployment insurance, pay health insurance where applicable etc. The "burden" is usually 25-35%/employee/year.

Let's call it 30% and that means we need to sell 208 tickets or 90 tubs of popcorn and that means that each of our 12 viewings needs to generate a minimum of 17 ticket sales every 8 hours that the cinema is open.

Still doable, right?

Now all we have to worry about are the manager's salary, the rent, the utilities, insurance, and the cost for purchase and maintenance of the equipment. But those costs are fairly fixed or at least have very little fluctuation so they have little or no effect on the number of ticket sales needed in order to meet them.

Raising the minimum wage by $5 nearly doubled the amount of ticket sales required just to cover staffing requirements.

Sneaking in your own food will cause prices to go even higher or cost at least one worker their job/8 hour shift or simply cause the cinema to close down entirely causing the loss of all jobs associated with its operation.

But the same people who were too cheap to buy popcorn probably don't care because they're watching a pirated version of the movie at home while simultaneously typing away on social media about how unskilled workers deserve $15 an hour and when businesses fail, it's their own fault... rather than the fault of the cheap motherfuckers who won't put their money where their mouths are.

/rant

[ant-mac]

Considering the current state of the film industry, due to recent world history, this discussion is rather "problematical". It would seem that the traditional way in which films were made and displayed for public consumption has now changed beyond all recognition from just a year ago. Whether this change is temporary, permanent or perhaps subject to evolution is presently unknown. However, if I temporarily ignore the existence of COVID-19 - I wish - then I believe I can proceed.

My top priority in this discussion are the workers on a minimum wage. How are they meant to earn a decent living or a "living wage"? How are they meant to feed and clothe themselves and their families? How are they meant to find a place to live for themselves and their families... and regularly pay the rent? How are they meant to pay for the utility bills? How are they meant to pay the medical bills of themselves and their families? How are they meant to pay the education bills of themselves and their families? How are they meant to pay the transportation costs of themselves and their families? How are they meant to cope with the unexpected contingencies that life is full of? The list goes on and on...

My first point would be to say that if an employer cannot pay their employees a fair and decent wage, perhaps they shouldn't be in business in the first place. Rather than placing the burden on those at the bottom, the heavy lifting should be placed where it belongs, on those at the top. The film makers and film distributors who regularly deal with sums of money worth hundreds of millions of dollars are in a far better position to cope with a few extra expenses than those struggling to get by on less than fifteen dollars per hour. These theatres - whether they are part of a chain or independent - should form together into an industry union and put up a united front to the film distributors. They should demand a better and fairer deal on behalf of themselves and their employees.

Originally, I wasn't planning to respond to this discussion, but it kept bouncing around in the back of my mind, bugging the hell out of me. I also come from a slightly different background and culture, so I realize I might approach this issue in a way that is different and perhaps inappropriate for a country like the USA. However, if I didn't approach this issue at all, there'd be no discussion.

[Prometheus]

Feb 11, 2021 22:24:17 GMT ant-mac said:

Considering the current state of the film industry, due to recent world history, this discussion is rather "problematical". It would seem that the traditional way in which films were made and displayed for public consumption has now changed beyond all recognition from just a year ago. Whether this change is temporary, permanent or perhaps subject to evolution is presently unknown. However, if I temporarily ignore the existence of COVID-19 - I wish - then I believe I can proceed.

My top priority in this discussion are the workers on a minimum wage. How are they meant to earn a decent living or a "living wage"? How are they meant to feed and clothe themselves and their families? How are they meant to find a place to live for themselves and their families... and regularly pay the rent? How are they meant to pay for the utility bills? How are they meant to pay the medical bills of themselves and their families? How are they meant to pay the education bills of themselves and their families? How are they meant to pay the transportation costs of themselves and their families? How are they meant to cope with the unexpected contingencies that life is full of? The list goes on and on...

My first point would be to say that if an employer cannot pay their employees a fair and decent wage, perhaps they shouldn't be in business in the first place. Rather than placing the burden on those at the bottom, the heavy lifting should be placed where it belongs, on those at the top. The film makers and film distributors who regularly deal with sums of money worth hundreds of millions of dollars are in a far better position to cope with a few extra expenses than those struggling to get by on less than fifteen dollars per hour. These theatres - whether they are part of a chain or independent - should form together into an industry union and put up a united front to the film distributors. They should demand a better and fairer deal on behalf of themselves and their employees.

Originally, I wasn't planning to respond to this discussion, but it kept bouncing around in the back of my mind, bugging the hell out of me. I also come from a slightly different background and culture, so I realize I might approach this issue in a way that is different and perhaps inappropriate for a country like the USA. However, if I didn't approach this issue at all, there'd be no discussion.

Am I my brother's keeper?

If you can't afford to have a family, don't start one. If you can't afford to buy a car, learn to love public transportation. If you can't afford to live on your own, get roommates or stay at home with mom and dad.

In the end, if you can't get a job that pays a "living wage" (whatever that bullshit phrase really means) then it might be time to re-examine your life choices and make some new ones. Not every problem in your life is somebody else' fault.

As I say this, I want to be clear that I am in favor of UHC and BIG, not because I'm a socialist (far, FAR from it), but because I believe that they would be a boon to capitalism (the real capitalism, not this corporatist bullshit). Healthy workers with fewer worries in life are simply better workers. Better workers will earn better wages as long as they are working for honest business owners. Honest business owners are people who understand the value of their employees.

More importantly, we need better systems of education that engage students and foster creative thinking. And I'm willing to toss a free 4-year college education into the mix.

If we are going to be part of "cancel culture," let's cancel the corporations that are creating things as a byproduct of greed rather than cancelling businesses that generate profit by producing things that people truly need and want at prices they can afford.

I know that doesn't exactly fit the "cinema" paradigm offered in the OP, but I hope you get where I'm going.

Outlaw credit cards and watch how fast prices drop to be in line with what the actual majority can afford without having to bump their wages to $15/hour. Hell, forgiving $416 billion in CC debt might go a long way to seeing people having enough money to pay off the $1.55 TRILLION they have in student loan debt.

I know that I went off on a tangential rant. Deal with it.

[ant-mac]

01. Is that you, Donald?

02. You're assuming this family consists of children and a partner. What if they're elderly parents, younger siblings or relations with disabilities?

Besides, this family may have been started when circumstances were more favourable. Remember I said life was full of unexpected contingencies?

Public transport can be a wonderful thing... if you have access to it. There is no public transport where I live.

Not always possible... and house mates aren't always reliable and not everyone has contact with their parents, or parents at all.

03. A living wage is defined as the minimum income necessary for a worker to meet their basic needs, such as food, housing, clothing, medical bills, transportation bills, utility bills and other essential needs.

And not every problem in someone's life is their own fault. It's often a mixture of causes, which, in any event is irrelevant. If people are in need or in trouble, they should be helped if at all possible.

04. I agree in general with your reasoning. It seems both rational and logical. However, I probably differ with you over socialism...

MoneySmart lists the ten most socialist countries as China, Denmark, Finland, Netherlands, Canada, Sweden, Norway, Ireland, New Zealand and Belgium. Meanwhile, seven of the happiest countries in the world are socialist. Australia has a long history of socialist - and communist - influence within the general population and the political class.

05. An excellent idea. I support any efforts to improve and increase educational opportunities for people.

06. I can't say I care much for "cancel culture", possibly because the wrong people keep getting cancelled.

07. I've never had a credit card... and I'm hoping I never will. However, times are changing and you can never be entirely sure of the future.

Personally, I'd keep the credit card debt to teach people a lesson about managing their finances and forgive the student loans... then introduce free education.

08. Did you?

I never noticed.

[Prometheus]

Feb 12, 2021 12:34:07 GMT ant-mac said:

01. Is that you, Donald?

Not even close, but I feel it's a valid question.

If you want me to be my brother's keeper - if you demand it - then I expect you to provide me with the tools I'll need in order to accomplish it. Of course, if you can furnish me with those tools, you can also furnish them to my brother so that he doesn't need me.

02. You're assuming this family consists of children and a partner. What if they're elderly parents, younger siblings or relations with disabilities?

Besides, this family may have been started when circumstances were more favourable. Remember I said life was full of unexpected contingencies?

All of which are reasons why I favor UHC, BIG, and [up to] 16 years of free education.

Public transport can be a wonderful thing... if you have access to it. There is no public transport where I live.

Not always possible... and house mates aren't always reliable and not everyone has contact with their parents, or parents at all.

And if you were a working man, I'd guess that you'd live closer to where the work is or you'd get a job that would let you afford gas (petrol? What do you guys call it?).

I moved nearly 12,000 km to be where there was work. Once here, I got a very small apartment far enough away from the city center (where I worked) so that it would be cheaper, but near the bus lines that would go to where I worked.

Back then, because of the exchange rate, I was sending about 75-80% of my take-home pay back to the States as child support. I found out exactly how much "luxury" I could live without and how much extra work was necessary to ensure a few niceties for myself, such as meat.

03. A living wage is defined as the minimum income necessary for a worker to meet their basic needs, such as food, housing, clothing, medical bills, transportation bills, utility bills and other essential needs.

With UHC and BIG, there's no need for a "living wage" is there?

And not every problem in someone's life is their own fault. It's often a mixture of causes, which, in any event is irrelevant. If people are in need or in trouble, they should be helped if at all possible.

True. Other people's choices are going to affect our set of choices. That goes without saying, but our first reaction shouldn't always be to stick out our hands and beg for someone else' help.

And the people who truly need help should be given the help they need. I'm not going to hand out fish. I'm going to give fishing lessons. Get it?

04. I agree in general with your reasoning. It seems both rational and logical. However, I probably differ with you over socialism...

Probably because you would define it differently as we'll get into below....

MoneySmart lists the ten most socialist countries as China, Denmark, Finland, Netherlands, Canada, Sweden, Norway, Ireland, New Zealand and Belgium. Meanwhile, seven of the happiest countries in the world are socialist. Australia has a long history of socialist - and communist - influence within the general population and the political class.

And I would argue that 9 of those countries are NOT socialist. Providing public goods is NOT socialism. If it is then every country in the world with publicly-maintained roads is socialist, and that's just stupid.

But it also brings up the biggest point for why the US has not adopted UHC etc.: the word, "socialism" and associated phrases such as "redistribution of wealth."

Stop using those words and start approaching it as I have mentioned above and the ideas will gain traction. Some other things would need to be done as well such as placing a ban on lobbying, but it's a fact that there are a lot of people out there who would rather die (and kill their friends and families) - as evidenced by the pandemic -  than do anything that smacks of the government exerting control.

"Single-payer UHC would NOT put the government in charge of your health care. It's just handing them the bill."

I say this to people back home who are opposed to the idea and sooner or later their final word on the issue is, "America doesn't need socialism!"

Is there an ancillary to Godwin's Law about conversations about UHC always devolving to "socialism"?

05. An excellent idea. I support any efforts to improve and increase educational opportunities for people.

Cheers!

06. I can't say I care much for "cancel culture", possibly because the wrong people keep getting cancelled.

Cheers again!

07. I've never had a credit card... and I'm hoping I never will. However, times are changing and you can never be entirely sure of the future.

I paid off my credit card debt years ago and cut up all of the cards. If I don't have the cash to buy something, I don't need it. I think more people need to start thinking that way because it will drive prices down... as long as the laws of supply and demand aren't otherwise subverted.

Personally, I'd keep the credit card debt to teach people a lesson about managing their finances and forgive the student loans... then introduce free education.

If you want to learn about personal finance, what better lesson is there than to learn how to pay back a loan?

Yes. Using a credit card is also a loan of sorts, but using it doesn't require all the paper signing and notarization comes with a student loan, car loan, or mortgage loan. That's why they are so dangerous.

08. Did you?

I never noticed.

You're just used to my rants at this point. I could only imagine how many topics we could start talking about but never finish talking about were we to sit in a room together with a pitcher of HLL on the table.