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Post by Prometheus on Jan 13, 2021 1:34:26 GMT
Gunshots? Carbombs?
A simple surge of fist-shakers?
Combinations thereof?
How will the Secret Service and Capitol Police respond?
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Post by ant-mac on Jan 13, 2021 3:42:54 GMT
Gunshots? Carbombs?
A simple surge of fist-shakers?
Combinations thereof?
How will the Secret Service and Capitol Police respond?
I think - hope - any events which occur in Washington will be adequately protected from all foreseeable - and some unforeseeable - unpleasantness. Indeed, after the unprecedented violence of the insurrectionists and the unprecedented incompetence and - apparent - aid provided by certain authorities figures, they really need to lift their fucking game. However, I've learned that there are also protests planned for all fifty state capitals around the nation at the same time. I'm not entirely sure if the trouble will be as wide spread as that, but if recent history has taught us anything, it's to never underestimate just how crazy some people are and just how ineffectual the authorities can be at combating the crazy. Extraordinary times call for extraordinary actions... and I expect there to be casualties, perhaps even more fatalities. |
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Post by Prometheus on Jan 13, 2021 8:31:43 GMT
Gunshots? Carbombs?
A simple surge of fist-shakers?
Combinations thereof?
How will the Secret Service and Capitol Police respond?
I think - hope - any events which occur in Washington will be adequately protected from all foreseeable - and some unforeseeable - unpleasantness. Indeed, after the unprecedented violence of the insurrectionists and the unprecedented incompetence and - apparent - aid provided by certain authorities figures, they really need to lift their fucking game. However, I've learned that there are also protests planned for all fifty state capitals around the nation at the same time. I'm not entirely sure if the trouble will be as wide spread as that, but if recent history has taught us anything, it's to never underestimate just how crazy some people are and just how ineffectual the authorities can be at combating the crazy. Extraordinary times call for extraordinary actions... and I expect there to be casualties, perhaps even more fatalities. And America's status as a failed state will be clear to all.
I think we are going to witness what future historians will refer to as a "cautionary tale."
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Post by ant-mac on Jan 13, 2021 8:48:31 GMT
I think - hope - any events which occur in Washington will be adequately protected from all foreseeable - and some unforeseeable - unpleasantness. Indeed, after the unprecedented violence of the insurrectionists and the unprecedented incompetence and - apparent - aid provided by certain authorities figures, they really need to lift their fucking game. However, I've learned that there are also protests planned for all fifty state capitals around the nation at the same time. I'm not entirely sure if the trouble will be as wide spread as that, but if recent history has taught us anything, it's to never underestimate just how crazy some people are and just how ineffectual the authorities can be at combating the crazy. Extraordinary times call for extraordinary actions... and I expect there to be casualties, perhaps even more fatalities. And America's status as a failed state will be clear to all.
I think we are going to witness what future historians will refer to as a "cautionary tale."
America has been brought low, but it has been brought low before and fought its way back to its prevision position in world affairs. Even if it loses its much vaunted position as "number one" - whatever that means - it's still a long way from being a failed state. Australia is a long way from being "number one", but we still do all right. As an Australian citizen, not once during my 52 years have I ever wanted to trade places with an American citizen. Perhaps the most telling aspect of all this is that if America should fall, it was brought down from within, not without. Abraham Lincoln was correct: "A house divided against itself, cannot stand." |
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Post by Prometheus on Jan 14, 2021 2:09:31 GMT
And America's status as a failed state will be clear to all.
I think we are going to witness what future historians will refer to as a "cautionary tale."
America has been brought low, but it has been brought low before and fought its way back to its prevision position in world affairs. Even if it loses its much vaunted position as "number one" - whatever that means - it's still a long way from being a failed state. Australia is a long way from being "number one", but we still do all right. As an Australian citizen, not once during my 52 years have I ever wanted to trade places with an American citizen. Perhaps the most telling aspect of all this is that if America should fall, it was brought down from within, not without. Abraham Lincoln was correct: "A house divided against itself, cannot stand." There are a lot of definitions of a failed state. Here's one:
Loss of control of its territory, or of the monopoly on the legitimate use of physical force therein The US hasn't lost any territory yet but I would say that the monopoly on force can reasonably be questioned
Erosion of legitimate authority to make collective decisions That happened years ago
Inability to provide public services We just keep loaning ourselves more money and driving up the debt....
Inability to interact with other states as a full member of the international community Nailed it!
If 2 out of 3 ain't bad, then 3 and a growing fraction out of 4 must be.
I'm not saying that the US has to be "Number 1" in order to not be a failed state. I'm saying that when a state cannot fulfill it's charter (the US Constitution in this case) or uses that charter as both a punching bag and punchline, chances are high that the state has failed.
I think... I hope the US can claw itself back from the edge, but the fact that we're having this conversation doesn't bode well.
I just woke to find that Donnie has made history by being the first POTUS to be impeached twice.
TWICE!
The fact that such a "human being" could ever be elected in the first place is evidence that the US is already off the rails.
And again, I blame "liberals" for that.
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Post by ant-mac on Jan 14, 2021 3:28:03 GMT
America is certainly up against it at present... there's absolutely no doubt about that. However, as I said previously, it's been brought low before and fought its way back to its prevision position of global dominance. And while there's no guarantee that it'll be able to do it again, it's still an indication of what America is capable of. It might take some time - if it's at all possible - and America might not be able to regain absolutely everything it's loss, but there's no reason why it can't mostly recover from its current misfortune.
Yes, Donald John Trump - the forty-fifth POTUS - is the first president in American history to be impeached twice during his term in office. This is even more impressive when you consider he's a one-term president. However, as serious as this might seem, it's very likely to be the least of his problems at present. He's lost his ability to communicate via social media, banks and businesses - foreign and domestic - now refuse to do business with him or his organization and even the PGA Tour is seeking to end its business arrangements with him. I wonder if he's tired of all that winning yet?
I have to agree with you that it's a worrying phenomenon for America that he was able to ascend to the presidency in the first place, not to mention that after four years of seeing him in action every single day, there were seventy-four or seventy-five million people still willing to vote for him for a second term. However, may I ask why you hold "liberals" responsible for his election... and do you think that "conservatives" should also share some of the blame?
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Post by Prometheus on Jan 14, 2021 4:34:40 GMT
... However, may I ask why you hold "liberals" responsible for his election... and do you think that "conservatives" should also share some of the blame? How many times can you kick a dog before it turns around and bites you?
Trump's base is predominantly straight, white [Christian], men and the women who love being subjugated by them.
For decades, who have the "liberals" railed against (right or wrong) as the progenitors for all evil on earth?
The "liberal" mindset seems to be, "We love everyone... except that scumbag straight, white, [Christian] patriarchy!"
Sooner or later that "scumbag straight, white, [Christian] patriarchy" was bound to turn around and bite. Anyone with a modicum of intelligence knew it. All the "right" needed was someone with a national presence to speak their language directly to them.
Enter Donald Trump.
Can I blame the "conservatives" for digging in their heels all these years? Just about everyone is going to dig in their heels and profess their beliefs as "right" at some point regardless of political persuasion or ideology, so no I don't blame them.
Can I blame them for turning around and biting after decades of abuse? No more than I can blame the dog who has endured beating after beating.
That shouldn't suggest that I agree with the "conservative" stance, just that I oppose the "liberal" approach that brought it to a head.
Sticking with my dog metaphor....
How many times have we heard that there are no bad breeds, only bad owners? Just about any time there's a story in the news about a pit bull that mauled some kid. No one ever blames the kid for taunting the dog, do they?
And what happens to the dog after it has mauled the child? Unfortunately, we have to put it down.
What if we had just trained the dog properly? What if we had given it treats for good behavior instead of kicking it every time it didn't do what we wanted even when we never told it what we wanted?
The "liberal" mindset is so focused on vengeance, retribution, and "turning the tables" that instead of growing a more inclusive and understanding society, they have increased the divisions. Even now, there's talk of "righting wrongs" but still there's no question about who is going to pay for it and whom they want hurt by paying for it: "that scumbag straight, white, [Christian] patriarchy!"
"Liberals" don't want to be in charge to make the world a better place for everyone. They want to be in charge to make the world a worse place for those who don't toe the line.
And the "cons" are simply tired of being the whipping boy.
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Post by ant-mac on Jan 15, 2021 19:33:00 GMT
Correct me if I'm wrong, but when you say "liberals", I assume you're referring to liberal extremists... or are you lumping all liberals together in one homogeneous group? Obviously, the second choice would be both illogical and unfair. It'd be like blaming all conservatives for the actions of one group of extremists on January 6. As a side note, I wonder if it ever occurred to these self-proclaimed conservatives that their behaviour on that occasion would not be generally considered as conservative.
And as for liberals holding conservatives responsible for "bad behaviour" for the last few decades, surely they must've had some reason to? If I may briefly appropriate your dog metaphor... If there is a vicious dog bullying and savaging a group of people and another person is in a position to intervene and end or at least restrict the bad behaviour, shouldn't they do so? And if the dog later becomes tired of being bullied and harassed, then perhaps it shouldn't have engaged in such behaviour itself.
In any case, there can simply be no excuse for what happened in Washington DC on January 6. And now that the alpha male has been neutered by a rival bitch and her pack, it seems that the rest of his pack will have to fend for themselves. It'll be interesting to see how many of them remain big tough dogs and how many of them transform back into what they really are... yappy little lapdogs.
PS - I've also heard that the crime of sedition or insurrection can carry a penalty of between 10 to 20 years imprisonment. This sounds fine for the majority of the followers and foot-soldiers, but surely the ring leaders deserve a more severe and, perhaps, permanent punishment. After all, as a result of their actions - directly or indirectly - 5 people died, extensive property damage was caused and government officials were endangered or threatened and prevented from carrying out their duties.
In short, this was an act of domestic terrorism.
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Post by Prometheus on Jan 16, 2021 0:34:02 GMT
Correct me if I'm wrong, but when you say "liberals", I assume you're referring to liberal extremists... or are you lumping all liberals together in one homogeneous group? Obviously, the second choice would be both illogical and unfair. It'd be like blaming all conservatives for the actions of one group of extremists on January 6. As a side note, I wonder if it ever occurred to these self-proclaimed conservatives that their behaviour on that occasion would not be generally considered as conservative. And as for liberals holding conservatives responsible for "bad behaviour" for the last few decades, surely they must've had some reason to? If I may briefly appropriate your dog metaphor... If there is a vicious dog bullying and savaging a group of people and another person is in a position to intervene and end or at least restrict the bad behaviour, shouldn't they do so? And if the dog later becomes tired of being bullied and harassed, then perhaps it shouldn't have engaged in such behaviour itself. In any case, there can simply be no excuse for what happened in Washington DC on January 6. And now that the alpha male has been neutered by a rival bitch and her pack, it seems that the rest of his pack will have to fend for themselves. It'll be interesting to see how many of them remain big tough dogs and how many of them transform back into what they really are... yappy little lapdogs. PS - I've also heard that the crime of sedition or insurrection can carry a penalty of between 10 to 20 years imprisonment. This sounds fine for the majority of the followers and foot-soldiers, but surely the ring leaders deserve a more severe and, perhaps, permanent punishment. After all, as a result of their actions - directly or indirectly - 5 people died, extensive property damage was caused and government officials were endangered or threatened and prevented from carrying out their duties. In short, this was an act of domestic terrorism. The quotation marks indicate my disagreement with their self-appellation.
The dog doesn't know any better because it wasn't trained (educated) better. Telling a dog not to shit in the house isn't going to stop it from shitting in the house. Beating the dog for shitting in the house usually ends up with the dog shitting in your bed. And even if you finally get the dog to shit outside, it still remembers the beatings and might not take another.
So we put down the dog and the owner beats his new puppy.
To your 3rd paragraph... I'm wondering if what's worse: a bullet to the head or death by a hundred cuts.
The insurrectionists should all be put down like the bad dogs they are but that doesn't absolve their "masters" (in my mind) for creating them.
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Post by ant-mac on Jan 16, 2021 5:59:22 GMT
1. Understood and agreed with.
As an aside, I've never cared for the term because in Australia, the term "liberal" refers to the centrist right-wing political party, the Liberal Party of Australia.
2. Yeah, the minions normally cop the consequences while the ring leaders sit back and enjoy the spectacle, free from any permanent or serious results.
3. A bullet to the head does have the advantage of being a more efficient use of time.
4. Agreed.
But what are the chances of these pricks ever really feeling the full force of law, order and justice?
PS - An excellent film.
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Post by Prometheus on Jan 16, 2021 11:19:12 GMT
1. Understood and agreed with. As an aside, I've never cared for the term because in Australia, the term "liberal" refers to the centrist right-wing political party, the Liberal Party of Australia. 2. Yeah, the minions normally cop the consequences while the ring leaders sit back and enjoy the spectacle, free from any permanent or serious results. 3. A bullet to the head does have the advantage of being a more efficient use of time. 4. Agreed. But what are the chances of these pricks ever really feeling the full force of law, order and justice? PS - An excellent film. When the creators and overseers of the law have little fear of feeling the effects of said laws, you can pretty much agree that you're on the way to being a failed state.
/circle
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Post by ant-mac on Jan 16, 2021 11:31:55 GMT
Despite everything, I still don't think it's a foregone conclusion just yet.
However, ask me again after January 20.
I don't wish to sound melodramatic, but I think that could well be the moment of truth.
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Post by Prometheus on Jan 16, 2021 17:00:07 GMT
Despite everything, I still don't think it's a foregone conclusion just yet. However, ask me again after January 20. I don't wish to sound melodramatic, but I think that could well be the moment of truth. The incoming administration:
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Post by ant-mac on Jan 17, 2021 2:50:10 GMT
The outgoing administration...
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Nightman
Ardipithecus
Original Eight
Posts: 122
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Post by Nightman on Jan 17, 2021 5:36:28 GMT
Everybody is worried about the Capitol. What about the White House? It is already infiltrated by the enemy who is happy to let them in and trash the place before he slinks off to Mar a Lago.
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Post by ant-mac on Jan 17, 2021 13:47:37 GMT
Everybody is worried about the Capitol. What about the White House? It is already infiltrated by the enemy who is happy to let them in and trash the place before he slinks off to Mar a Lago. I think it's already too late to save the White House. Would you want to use one of those toilets, knowing whose fat orange arse had been sitting on it for the previous four years? "Nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."  |
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Post by ant-mac on Jan 17, 2021 16:33:14 GMT
Apparently, on a right-wing website called Exile - which I was banned from - a poster by the name of airborne said:
It would seem that on January 20, one side of the political divide is going to be very disappointed...
I wonder which one it'll be?
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Nightman
Ardipithecus
Original Eight
Posts: 122
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Post by Nightman on Jan 17, 2021 17:11:17 GMT
Everybody is worried about the Capitol. What about the White House? It is already infiltrated by the enemy who is happy to let them in and trash the place before he slinks off to Mar a Lago. I think it's already too late to save the White House. Would you want to use one of those toilets, knowing whose fat orange arse had been sitting on it for the previous four years? "Nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure." I recall John Oliver saying once, don't blame the White House; it can be saved. All we need is to use all the Clorox and Lysol that hasn't been injected to scrub that place from top to bottom. But if he has his very fine cult invade the poor House on his last morning there, it can't be cleaned fast enough.  |
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Post by ant-mac on Jan 17, 2021 17:17:36 GMT
I think it's already too late to save the White House. Would you want to use one of those toilets, knowing whose fat orange arse had been sitting on it for the previous four years? "Nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure." I recall John Oliver saying once, don't blame the White House; it can be saved. All we need is to use all the Clorox and Lysol that hasn't been injected to scrub that place from top to bottom. But if he has his very fine cult invade the poor House on his last morning there, it can't be cleaned fast enough. Build a watertight wall around the White House that's about 5 foot higher, then fill it to the brim with disinfectant and let the building soak in it's cleansing bath until it's nice and clean. About four years should do it. |
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Nightman
Ardipithecus
Original Eight
Posts: 122
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Post by Nightman on Jan 17, 2021 17:20:05 GMT
Apparently, on a right-wing website called Exile - which I was banned from - a poster by the name of airborne said: It would seem that on January 20, one side of the political divide is going to be very disappointed... I wonder which one it'll be? I have a feeling Agent Orange could try it, though he is worried he won't be able to pardon himself out of any trouble if it goes wrong. |
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