Let Them Eat Electric Cake

[abbey1227]

Buttigieg Tries to Make Families Feel Better About Gas Prices By Offering an Unaffordable Alternative
Katie Pavlich   Posted: Nov 29, 2021 5:00 PM
Source: Stefani Reynolds/Pool via AP

As the Biden Administration continues to push American families into alternative energy sources by maintaining pain at the pump, Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg is attempting to explain away high gas prices.

During an interview with MSNBC over the weekend, Buttigieg reassured Americans they won't have to worry about an increase in gas prices ever again, so long as they buy an electric vehicle.

"Families who own that vehicle will never have to worry about gas prices again," Buttigieg said. "The people who stand to benefit most from owning an EV are often rural residents who have the most distances to drive, who burn the most gas, and underserved urban residents in areas where there are higher gas prices and lower income."

"They would gain the most by having that vehicle. These are the very residents who have not always been connected to electric vehicles that are viewed as kind of a luxury item," he continued."If we can make the electric vehicle less expensive for everybody, more people can take advantage, and we'll be selling more American-made EVs, which means in time they'll become less expensive to make and to buy for everybody."

Rural residents who need to drive long distances are the worst candidates for electric vehicles, which only charge for a certain number of miles. Outside of major cities, electric charging stations don't exist.

According to Cox Automotive, the average electric vehicle costs at least $55,000. President Biden has embraced the Green New Deal plan to eliminate most oil and gas use by 2030.

Dan Crenshaw
@dancrenshawtx
Imagine being so out of touch that you think spending tens of thousands more on an electric car is easy for most people. 78% of EV subsidies go to those making six figures.

And the rest of us still worry about gas prices, because gas affects the cost of literally everything.

Matt Schlapp
@mschlapp
Yes, the solution for working class families struggling with record high gas prices is to just simply buy a $55,000 Tesla.

Earth to @secretarypete
: Electricity also comes from fossil fuels.

townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2021/11/29/buttigieg-tries-make-families-feel-better-about-rising-gas-prices-and-completely-fails-n2599779?fbclid=IwAR1dhxQNRbes5NPlbNRg5oc9k16XE_Y4uvD5b0iZ63jIKlxIzeJgV_5mTEA

[abbey1227]

Pennsylvania residents could see electricity prices rise as much as 50 percent this winter
Energy costs for electric customers are going up by as much as 50% across Pennsylvania next week, the latest manifestation of across-the-board energy price increases impacting gasoline, heating oil, propane, and natural gas.

Eight Pennsylvania electric utilities are set to increase their energy prices on Dec. 1, reflecting the higher cost to produce electricity. Peco Energy, which serves Philadelphia and its suburbs, will boost its energy charge by 6.4% on Dec. 1, from 6.6 cents per kilowatt hour to about 7 cents per kWh. Energy charges account for about half of a residential bill.

www.democraticunderground.com/107415577

[Prometheus]

Don't you own an EV, Abs?

I think it's time you told those rural folks how easy it is to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, save a couple bucks out of the welfare checks, and buy one. Let them know that they need to show some personal responsibility.

[abbey1227]

Dec 1, 2021 0:56:57 GMT Prometheus said:

Don't you own an EV, Abs?

I think it's time you told those rural folks how easy it is to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, save a couple bucks out of the welfare checks, and buy one. Let them know that they need to show some personal responsibility.

I used to own a hybrid. Toyota Prius C

I couldn't see the sense in going completely electric.

But as much as I liked the car........ I decided to sell it to some friends that put on about 10 times as many miles as I currently do.

That model is no longer offered by Toyota, though. Too inexpensive? I paid less than 20K for it.

Most Americans have trouble with the payments on even something that modestly priced.

So about that $50K.............?  

[merh]

Don't you drive a Prius?

My kid has a prius.

There are more & more hybrids being offered

You know gas prices won't stay up there forever.

Went & saw Eternals, then went to Ralph's. 
Shelves were full..
Some items maybe we're out of stock, but there were items. Say Green Giant corn was out, there was still Del Monte, etc.

I bought gas. 
Had points expiring so I went to Shell which of course is more expensive, but got $1 off so it was $3.79/gallon for 7 gallons. $27.50.

[abbey1227]

Dec 1, 2021 8:22:11 GMT merh said:

Don't you drive a Prius?

My kid has a prius.

There are more & more hybrids being offered

You know gas prices won't stay up there forever.

Went & saw Eternals, then went to Ralph's. 
Shelves were full..
Some items maybe we're out of stock, but there were items. Say Green Giant corn was out, there was still Del Monte, etc.

I bought gas. 
Had points expiring so I went to Shell which of course is more expensive, but got $1 off so it was $3.79/gallon for 7 gallons. $27.50.

Are all of the posts in this thread not showing up? Sold it. Got a used Corolla

There ARE more hybrids being offered...........still can't touch most new cars for less than $20-25K

Gas here is sitting at $2.99 currently.

Not sure how that affects the electricity rates that will be going up? Or the brown outs out your way with the existing infrastructure.......that's before everyone goes electric.

[Prometheus]

Dec 1, 2021 6:55:56 GMT abbey1227 said:

Dec 1, 2021 0:56:57 GMT Prometheus said:

Don't you own an EV, Abs?

I think it's time you told those rural folks how easy it is to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, save a couple bucks out of the welfare checks, and buy one. Let them know that they need to show some personal responsibility.

I used to own a hybrid. Toyota Prius C

I couldn't see the sense in going completely electric.

But as much as I liked the car........ I decided to sell it to some friends that put on about 10 times as many miles as I currently do.

That model is no longer offered by Toyota, though. Too inexpensive? I paid less than 20K for it.

Most Americans have trouble with the payments on even something that modestly priced.

So about that $50K.............?  

$20k or 50k doesn't make a difference. YOU are upset that rural folks can't afford it. Tell those able-bodied but lazy fuckers to start saving their money!

[abbey1227]

Dec 1, 2021 9:18:31 GMT Prometheus said:

$20k or 50k doesn't make a difference. YOU are upset that rural folks can't afford it. Tell those able-bodied but lazy fuckers to start saving their money!

So much for sticking up forthe poor and disadvantaged, huh?

Or is that sentiment of yours only for the more urbanite types?

[Prometheus]

Dec 1, 2021 9:22:00 GMT abbey1227 said:

Dec 1, 2021 9:18:31 GMT Prometheus said:

$20k or 50k doesn't make a difference. YOU are upset that rural folks can't afford it. Tell those able-bodied but lazy fuckers to start saving their money!

So much for sticking up forthe poor and disadvantaged, huh?

Or is that sentiment of yours only for the more urbanite types?

Wha?

Repeating what you say all the fucking time is somehow a reflection of my opinions?

Saying shit like that is why people don't like you and just make fun of you.

Luckily, most people are more tolerant than you.

[abbey1227]

Dec 1, 2021 10:04:03 GMT Prometheus said:

Dec 1, 2021 9:22:00 GMT abbey1227 said:

So much for sticking up for the poor and disadvantaged, huh?

Or is that sentiment of yours only for the more urbanite types?

Wha?

Repeating what you say all the fucking time is somehow a reflection of my opinions?

Saying shit like that is why people don't like you and just make fun of you.

Luckily, most people are more tolerant than you.

you repeated what I said? Or made a mockery of what you've maintained in the past? Awfully selective sympathies for the typical 'tolerant' type.

Make fun of me all you like.

Doesn't change the realities of where people are and what they get up to on a regular basis.

[Prometheus]

Dec 1, 2021 11:44:59 GMT abbey1227 said:

Dec 1, 2021 10:04:03 GMT Prometheus said:

Wha?

Repeating what you say all the fucking time is somehow a reflection of my opinions?

Saying shit like that is why people don't like you and just make fun of you.

Luckily, most people are more tolerant than you.

you repeated what I said? Or made a mockery of what you've maintained in the past? Awfully selective sympathies for the typical 'tolerant' type.

Make fun of me all you like.

Doesn't change the realities of where people are and what they get up to on a regular basis.

Abs, when poor liberals complain about the housing market (buying or renting) you respond with the usual, "Learn basic finances! Save some money! buy a piece of land and build your own house! Why can't people just be like me and save money for the things they want?"

Now we have a liberal saying, "If you don't like gas prices, buy an EV" and you seem worried that EVs are out of the price range of poor people. I just assumed that the same logic and advice would apply: "Learn how to save money then buy an EV."

You did, right?

It shouldn't matter what EVs cost now compared to what they cost when you bought yours. You certainly don't seem to care that land is more expensive than when you bought yours or that contractors are making more or that the cost of materials is 5 to 10 times higher than when you built. "SAVE YOUR MONEY!"

In hindsight, it was probably wrong for me to expect you to follow your own logic on this one. After all, the people talking about problems with housing are young and often black, but rural folk who are poor are probably seen by you as old and mostly white.

Of course, you don't want to subsidize their cars anymore than you want to subsidize their housing, do you?

But I'll bet that you want the "gubmint" to do something about gas prices, don't you? Of course, because gas prices affect YOU. If they happen to affect others, well that's just a happy coincidence, isn't it?

[abbey1227]

Dec 2, 2021 1:43:44 GMT Prometheus said:

Abs, when poor liberals complain about the housing market (buying or renting) you respond with the usual, "Learn basic finances! Save some money! buy a piece of land and build your own house! Why can't people just be like me and save money for the things they want?"

Now we have a liberal saying, "If you don't like gas prices, buy an EV" and you seem worried that EVs are out of the price range of poor people. I just assumed that the same logic and advice would apply: "Learn how to save money then buy an EV."

You did, right?

It shouldn't matter what EVs cost now compared to what they cost when you bought yours. You certainly don't seem to care that land is more expensive than when you bought yours or that contractors are making more or that the cost of materials is 5 to 10 times higher than when you built. "SAVE YOUR MONEY!"

In hindsight, it was probably wrong for me to expect you to follow your own logic on this one. After all, the people talking about problems with housing are young and often black, but rural folk who are poor are probably seen by you as old and mostly white.

Of course, you don't want to subsidize their cars anymore than you want to subsidize their housing, do you?

But I'll bet that you want the "gubmint" to do something about gas prices, don't you? Of course, because gas prices affect YOU. If they happen to affect others, well that's just a happy coincidence, isn't it?

No. You have someone in an administration, in a position of power, clearly stating they'll be using the force of Govt to force people to do what they'd prefer.

My way is to give you all the options available to you........but then you have every right and freedom to choose for yourself and there's really nobody else to blame when you choose poorly (for lack of a better term). Their way is to limit the options and to drive up the costs of the things they don't prefer in order to mandate behavior.

You're completely ignoring the wage levels of when I first bought my land and built. The Minimum Wage was was in the $3 range, IIRC. So I've seen over the years how raising that minimum doesn't help a thing. It's still all relative.

Wow, there's a shock, Rissa. Right back to making everything racial? Shoulda changed your ID to Barrack.

Subsidizing. Just another way to redistribute money and use Govt force to mandate behaviors again. It's also pretty handy in making people ever more dependent. It certainly never gets around to curing a GD thing.

I want the Govt to GET THE F OUTTA THE WAY and let people get to work.

Again, it's been the Govt's actions that caused this spike in gas prices. Go ahead and deny it.

[abbey1227]

Autos & Transportation
Stellantis CEO says EV cost burden is 'beyond the limits' for automakers
By Joseph White

DETROIT, Dec 1 (Reuters) - Stellantis NV (STLA.MI) Chief Executive Carlos Tavares said external pressure on automakers to accelerate the shift to electric vehicles potentially threatens jobs and vehicle quality as producers struggle to manage the higher costs of building EVs.

Governments and investors want car manufacturers to speed up the transition to electric vehicles, but the costs are "beyond the limits" of what the auto industry can sustain, Tavares said in an interview at the Reuters Next conference released Wednesday.

"What has been decided is to impose on the automotive industry electrification that brings 50% additional costs against a conventional vehicle," he said.

"There is no way we can transfer 50% of additional costs to the final consumer because most parts of the middle class will not be able to pay."

Automakers could charge higher prices and sell fewer cars, or accept lower profit margins, Tavares said. Those paths both lead to cutbacks. Union leaders in Europe and North America have warned tens of thousands of jobs could be lost.

Automakers need time for testing and ensuring that new technology will work, Tavares said. Pushing to speed that process up "is just going to be counter productive. It will lead to quality problems. It will lead to all sorts of problems," he said.

Tavares said Stellantis is aiming to avoid cuts by boosting productivity at a pace far faster than industry norm.

"Over the next five years we have to digest 10% productivity a year ... in an industry which is used to delivering 2 to 3% productivity" improvement, he said.

"The future will tell us who is going to be able to digest this, and who will fail," Tavares said. "We are putting the industry on the limits."

www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/stellantis-ceo-says-ev-cost-burden-is-beyond-limits-automakers-2021-12-01/?fbclid=IwAR2M3-EYbkH0Y5gyaYfP6ibeOwpccqSy4HdynCbC1ADFJa0IIHnX_tkllzA


Must just be me.


And never mind where the US currently gets most of it's electricity. Coal. With an infrastructure that's already straining to deliver.

Just caught a piece on Massachusetts forcing a power corrider thru the state of Maine? To get electricity from Canada? Oh, how Green of them! Sorta like shipping off tons of garbage in barges to places outside the US. Out of sight, out of mind?

[abbey1227]

I guess it ain't just me, comments from others on this subject.........

R G
You won’t be able to afford an electric car and an at home charging system. Get your bikes, scooters, skateboards, segways, walking shoes, and public transit maps out.....THAT is what they have in mind for people, when they completely crush all sectors… See more


D B
Has there ever been a more out of touch administration? I say no and it’s not even close. When your answers to problems aren’t answers you are the problem.


P R
Guess if you work for the biden administration, the price of an electric car is not a pressing problem...but in reality the average person can not afford to buy one and more interesting is where the hell do they think they are going to get the power to… See more


N H
If everyone went out and bought an electric car and plugged it in the grid would fail!
Also they ain’t great for the environment with the minerals you have to dig out the ground, the used batteries and the nuclear power station powering them!😩

[Prometheus]

Dec 2, 2021 2:08:03 GMT abbey1227 said:

Dec 2, 2021 1:43:44 GMT Prometheus said:

Abs, when poor liberals complain about the housing market (buying or renting) you respond with the usual, "Learn basic finances! Save some money! buy a piece of land and build your own house! Why can't people just be like me and save money for the things they want?"

Now we have a liberal saying, "If you don't like gas prices, buy an EV" and you seem worried that EVs are out of the price range of poor people. I just assumed that the same logic and advice would apply: "Learn how to save money then buy an EV."

You did, right?

It shouldn't matter what EVs cost now compared to what they cost when you bought yours. You certainly don't seem to care that land is more expensive than when you bought yours or that contractors are making more or that the cost of materials is 5 to 10 times higher than when you built. "SAVE YOUR MONEY!"

In hindsight, it was probably wrong for me to expect you to follow your own logic on this one. After all, the people talking about problems with housing are young and often black, but rural folk who are poor are probably seen by you as old and mostly white.

Of course, you don't want to subsidize their cars anymore than you want to subsidize their housing, do you?

But I'll bet that you want the "gubmint" to do something about gas prices, don't you? Of course, because gas prices affect YOU. If they happen to affect others, well that's just a happy coincidence, isn't it?

No. You have someone in an administration, in a position of power, clearly stating they'll be using the force of Govt to force people to do what they'd prefer.

My way is to give you all the options available to you........but then you have every right and freedom to choose for yourself and there's really nobody else to blame when you choose poorly (for lack of a better term). Their way is to limit the options and to drive up the costs of the things they don't prefer in order to mandate behavior.

You're completely ignoring the wage levels of when I first bought my land and built. The Minimum Wage was was in the $3 range, IIRC. So I've seen over the years how raising that minimum doesn't help a thing. It's still all relative.

Wow, there's a shock, Rissa. Right back to making everything racial? Shoulda changed your ID to Barrack.

Subsidizing. Just another way to redistribute money and use Govt force to mandate behaviors again. It's also pretty handy in making people ever more dependent. It certainly never gets around to curing a GD thing.

I want the Govt to GET THE F OUTTA THE WAY and let people get to work.

Again, it's been the Govt's actions that caused this spike in gas prices. Go ahead and deny it.

1.

2. If you actually think #1 is true, then I'm sure you think you're right, but since #1 is absurd....

3. Minimum wage in the mid 80's was about $3/hour and the average price of a house was less than $50/k. In 2021, the minimum wage is $7.25... an increase of 142%. The average cost of a house is $325k... an increase of 550%. Can you see the problem?

4. I know that it pisses you off.

5&6. So what should the government do? Should they remove all the gasoline subsidies so that you can pay $10 a gallon like the folks in Norway?

[merh]

OH NOES!!!
THE PRICE WILL NEVER EVER COME DOWN!!!

Oil prices have tanked so hard traders are assuming planes won't fly for 3 months: Goldman Sachs
Brian Sozzi

Wed, December 1, 2021, 3:46 AM·

Oil prices have come down way too fast on Omicron variant concerns, says Goldman Sachs oil strategist Damien Courvalin.

In fact, the price correction is borderline comical, per Courvalin's calculations.

"The lack of discretionary buying activity in the face of an uncertain new COVID variant has therefore left prices in free-fall and pricing in a dire demand outlook. We estimate based on our pricing model, that the market has now priced in a mammoth c.7 mb/d [millions of barrels per day] negative demand hit over the next three months, with no offsetting OPEC+ response," pointed out Courvalin in a new research note on Wednesday

Courvalin added, "To put this into context, this would represent any of these extreme outcomes: (1) not a single plane flying around the world for three months, or (2) half as intense as the 2Q20 global lockdown, or (3) a world even worst-off than before vaccinations: the combination of global jet demand falling to last winter’s level (-1 mb/d), a twice as large hit to EU demand as the Alpha variant last winter (-2 mb/d) and twice as large a hit to Chinese demand as the Delta variant this summer (-1 mb/d). The relatively parallel nature of the sell-off, with back-end prices down $7/bbl, could also be interpreted as the market pricing in a shallower but longer demand hit: a c.4 mb/d hit over 3 months with c.3mb/d of this a permanent impact offset by higher OPEC+ spare capacity."

WTI crude oil prices have plunged 12% since Nov. 24 on worries the new variant will stunt global demand. As Yahoo Finance's Jared Blikre notes, oil prices are now down about 23% from their recent high.

Stay ahead of the market
Shares of oil majors Exxon and BP have shed 7.2% and 9.8%, respectively, in the last five sessions, according to Yahoo Finance Plus data.

The sell-off in oil comes amid a violent broader market pullback this past week, which continued on Tuesday.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average plunged 652 points in Tuesday trading, while the Nasdaq Composite and S&P 500 were also deeply in the red. All 30 Dow components were in the red for the session, except for Apple and Merck.

Courvalin believes the steep pullback in oil prices is looking overdone.

"We view the move lower in prices as excessive but understandable in the context of low year-end liquidity and risk appetite. Given the large uncertainties at this time, we await further news on the variant’s development and additional restrictions imposed before refreshing our supply and demand balances and oil price forecasts, although again reiterate our view that the market has far overshot the likely impact of the latest variant on oil demand with the structural repricing higher due to the dramatic change in the oil supply reaction function still ahead of us," Courvalin noted.

[abbey1227]

Dec 2, 2021 3:14:34 GMT Prometheus said:

2. If you actually think #1 is true, then I'm sure you think you're right, but since #1 is absurd....

3. Minimum wage in the mid 80's was about $3/hour and the average price of a house was less than $50/k. In 2021, the minimum wage is $7.25... an increase of 142%. The average cost of a house is $325k... an increase of 550%. Can you see the problem?

4. I know that it pisses you off.

5&6. So what should the government do? Should they remove all the gasoline subsidies so that you can pay $10 a gallon like the folks in Norway?

it's about as absurd as all those times the term PC was mocked as non-existent......which later evolved into woke

I took out a loan for $80,000 in the mid 90s,  which was still cheaper than most on the same block.

The problem? That minimum wage isn't a living wage allowing a person to buy the newest and best of everything? A friend of mine bought an older, smaller home in a crappier part of town a few years later than me, all by himself for about $30,000. He stayed there several years, and then sold it for a profit and moved into an even nicer home and neighborhood. So this insistence that it's just impossible.....blah blah blah......it all BS. People seem to find plenty of money for the things they really want.

Good to know your goal is simply to piss me off. 

5. YES! Stop picking winners and losers and simply let the market balance things out! YES YES YES! Maybe then I could finally get a microcar here and enjoy 60 MPG, too

[Prometheus]

Dec 2, 2021 13:39:21 GMT abbey1227 said:

Dec 2, 2021 3:14:34 GMT Prometheus said:

2. If you actually think #1 is true, then I'm sure you think you're right, but since #1 is absurd....

3. Minimum wage in the mid 80's was about $3/hour and the average price of a house was less than $50/k. In 2021, the minimum wage is $7.25... an increase of 142%. The average cost of a house is $325k... an increase of 550%. Can you see the problem?

4. I know that it pisses you off.

5&6. So what should the government do? Should they remove all the gasoline subsidies so that you can pay $10 a gallon like the folks in Norway?

it's about as absurd as all those times the term PC was mocked as non-existent......which later evolved into woke

I took out a loan for $80,000 in the mid 90s,  which was still cheaper than most on the same block.

The problem? That minimum wage isn't a living wage allowing a person to buy the newest and best of everything? A friend of mine bought an older, smaller home in a crappier part of town a few years later than me, all by himself for about $30,000. He stayed there several years, and then sold it for a profit and moved into an even nicer home and neighborhood. So this insistence that it's just impossible.....blah blah blah......it all BS. People seem to find plenty of money for the things they really want.

Good to know your goal is simply to piss me off. 

5. YES! Stop picking winners and losers and simply let the market balance things out! YES YES YES! Maybe then I could finally get a microcar here and enjoy 60 MPG, too

1. The term "PC" has been around for a couple few decades at this point and mocked since the beginning. Yes. It has evolved into "wokeness" but like many other things that evolve, there are "branches." There are still times when toning language down is preferable such as not using words that reflect negatively on a person's race or heritage... you stupid dago, guinea, wop... for example. Just because one branch of an evolutionary tree has evolved to the point of becoming a parody of its forebear doesn't mean the original branch has no merit.

Ford produced the Mustang AND the Pinto. Talking about Ford might not be the best analogy ( ), but I hope you get the point.

2. I'm not even talking about "living wage." I'm not talking about buying the newest or the best. I'm simply pointing out that the cost of an item has grown faster than the ability to pay for it based on your wage. As such, it is disingenuous to talk about what you could do 40 years ago as still being feasible for all today. Can some people scrimp and save and buy a house? Sure. Can everybody? No, because there are waaaaay more variables than just income and some of those variables are going to hold more weight than others in individual discussions with each and every wannabe home-buyer. AND - even though you hate to hear it - there are obstacles in the way of certain demographics that simply were never - and would never be - in your way.

The "I did it. So can you!" pitch might as well be the leper's bell sounding the approach of a huckster.

3. Well... you lie about and misrepresent what I say on a regular basis, so pissing you off seems like a fair trade-off.

4. Again, you don't seem to understand: I have no problem with letting the market pick the winners and losers. I just want the market to be open to everyone in exactly the same ways. How can I (or anyone else) beat you at a video game when we aren't even allowed into the store to buy the console?

[merh]

Dec 2, 2021 2:08:03 GMT abbey1227 said:

Dec 2, 2021 1:43:44 GMT Prometheus said:

Abs, when poor liberals complain about the housing market (buying or renting) you respond with the usual, "Learn basic finances! Save some money! buy a piece of land and build your own house! Why can't people just be like me and save money for the things they want?"

Now we have a liberal saying, "If you don't like gas prices, buy an EV" and you seem worried that EVs are out of the price range of poor people. I just assumed that the same logic and advice would apply: "Learn how to save money then buy an EV."

You did, right?

It shouldn't matter what EVs cost now compared to what they cost when you bought yours. You certainly don't seem to care that land is more expensive than when you bought yours or that contractors are making more or that the cost of materials is 5 to 10 times higher than when you built. "SAVE YOUR MONEY!"

In hindsight, it was probably wrong for me to expect you to follow your own logic on this one. After all, the people talking about problems with housing are young and often black, but rural folk who are poor are probably seen by you as old and mostly white.

Of course, you don't want to subsidize their cars anymore than you want to subsidize their housing, do you?

But I'll bet that you want the "gubmint" to do something about gas prices, don't you? Of course, because gas prices affect YOU. If they happen to affect others, well that's just a happy coincidence, isn't it?

No. You have someone in an administration, in a position of power, clearly stating they'll be using the force of Govt to force people to do what they'd prefer.

My way is to give you all the options available to you........but then you have every right and freedom to choose for yourself and there's really nobody else to blame when you choose poorly (for lack of a better term). Their way is to limit the options and to drive up the costs of the things they don't prefer in order to mandate behavior.

You're completely ignoring the wage levels of when I first bought my land and built. The Minimum Wage was was in the $3 range, IIRC. So I've seen over the years how raising that minimum doesn't help a thing. It's still all relative.

Wow, there's a shock, Rissa. Right back to making everything racial? Shoulda changed your ID to Barrack.

Subsidizing. Just another way to redistribute money and use Govt force to mandate behaviors again. It's also pretty handy in making people ever more dependent. It certainly never gets around to curing a GD thing.

I want the Govt to GET THE F OUTTA THE WAY and let people get to work.

Again, it's been the Govt's actions that caused this spike in gas prices. Go ahead and deny it.

[abbey1227]

Dec 3, 2021 6:40:53 GMT merh said:

I don't even disagree with that............with the exception of it necessarily being a problem.

THAT's the life lesson you're supposed to pick up on.

You work harder and smarter when you're younger and more able to........so that you don't have to keep working til you're body has nothing left to offer.

MOST people are able to do that........despite all of the anecdotal excuse making I've been flooded with for years.

You know it's true. You've seen it again and again. Criminals have all sorts of energy and motivation to commit crimes......but be productive? and plan better for the future? THAT's too tough a task? More tough than dealing with the Govt? and going to prison?