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Post by merh on Jun 15, 2021 3:05:43 GMT
Meh, just another perspective on the issue, no better or worse than your own... Just different and just as valid. Not quite as valid since it starts with a false premise: that merit doesn't exist for the non-rich, non-white, non-whatever folk. That it's bullshit and easily proven by the growing number of POC millionaires, billionaires, college graduates etc.
Not everyone is going to be rich and famous no matter how level the playing field is. Some people are always going to squander their opportunities. Some people are going to be in the right place at the right time but still make the wrong decision. Some people simply aren't going to be up to the challenge of the opportunity they grab.
I certainly believe is creating a country... a world where everyone has access to opportunities, but those opportunities have to suit the people that take them. I'm never going to be a theoretical physicist who solves the problems of Unified Field Theory. Does that mean that I have been shut out of all opportunity? Of course not.
But Gates, Bezos, etc. DID NOT DO IT ALONE. My kid knew someone who got messed up working for Amazon, then Amazon denied responsibility so no workers comp. Would it kill to pay workers more, considering the bucks these guys made. Matthew 25: 31When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. 41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. |
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Post by Prometheus on Jun 15, 2021 3:28:04 GMT
Not quite as valid since it starts with a false premise: that merit doesn't exist for the non-rich, non-white, non-whatever folk. That it's bullshit and easily proven by the growing number of POC millionaires, billionaires, college graduates etc.
Not everyone is going to be rich and famous no matter how level the playing field is. Some people are always going to squander their opportunities. Some people are going to be in the right place at the right time but still make the wrong decision. Some people simply aren't going to be up to the challenge of the opportunity they grab.
I certainly believe is creating a country... a world where everyone has access to opportunities, but those opportunities have to suit the people that take them. I'm never going to be a theoretical physicist who solves the problems of Unified Field Theory. Does that mean that I have been shut out of all opportunity? Of course not.
But Gates, Bezos, etc. DID NOT DO IT ALONE. My kid knew someone who got messed up working for Amazon, then Amazon denied responsibility so no workers comp. Would it kill to pay workers more, considering the bucks these guys made. Matthew 25: 31When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. 41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. Don't confuse the workers for being the ones who had the idea.
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Post by abbey1227 on Jun 15, 2021 3:30:26 GMT
Not quite as valid since it starts with a false premise: that merit doesn't exist for the non-rich, non-white, non-whatever folk. That it's bullshit and easily proven by the growing number of POC millionaires, billionaires, college graduates etc.
Not everyone is going to be rich and famous no matter how level the playing field is. Some people are always going to squander their opportunities. Some people are going to be in the right place at the right time but still make the wrong decision. Some people simply aren't going to be up to the challenge of the opportunity they grab.
I certainly believe is creating a country... a world where everyone has access to opportunities, but those opportunities have to suit the people that take them. I'm never going to be a theoretical physicist who solves the problems of Unified Field Theory. Does that mean that I have been shut out of all opportunity? Of course not.
But Gates, Bezos, etc. DID NOT DO IT ALONE. My kid knew someone who got messed up working for Amazon, then Amazon denied responsibility so no workers comp. Would it kill to pay workers more, considering the bucks these guys made. Matthew 25: 31When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. 41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
As go wage increases, so go prices
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Post by abbey1227 on Jun 15, 2021 3:31:34 GMT
Don't confuse the workers for being the ones who had the idea.
This would be why so very many cogs are very inexpensive and totally replaceable.
Not that there's anything wrong with that
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Post by Prometheus on Jun 15, 2021 3:48:38 GMT
Don't confuse the workers for being the ones who had the idea.
This would be why so very many cogs are very inexpensive and totally replaceable.
Not that there's anything wrong with that
If your tap is squirting water everywhere, do you buy a whole new tap or simply replace the washers?
As an aside: In China, you'd be forced to buy the whole tap as the retailer wants the big profit from the tap and not the tiny profit from the washer.
Which, when you think of it, is exactly smart phones exist.
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Post by merh on Jun 15, 2021 4:47:03 GMT
But Gates, Bezos, etc. DID NOT DO IT ALONE. My kid knew someone who got messed up working for Amazon, then Amazon denied responsibility so no workers comp. Would it kill to pay workers more, considering the bucks these guys made. Matthew 25: 31When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. 41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. Don't confuse the workers for being the ones who had the idea.
But having an idea doesn't equal billions. Bezos would be nowhere if his workers didn't do the work satisfying the customers. If Gates had been unable to translate his ideas into product, he wouldn't be a billionaire. |
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Post by merh on Jun 15, 2021 4:52:19 GMT
But Gates, Bezos, etc. DID NOT DO IT ALONE. My kid knew someone who got messed up working for Amazon, then Amazon denied responsibility so no workers comp. Would it kill to pay workers more, considering the bucks these guys made. Matthew 25: 31When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. 41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
As go wage increases, so go prices
So basically screw people being paid what they should be paid because you don't want your burrito to go up a quarter. nypost.com/2021/06/09/chipotle-hikes-prices-to-cover-wages-amid-labor-shortage/Next you’ll say I was crazy to pay for a $13 cab ride with a $20. |
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Post by Prometheus on Jun 15, 2021 4:56:37 GMT
Don't confuse the workers for being the ones who had the idea.
But having an idea doesn't equal billions. Bezos would be nowhere if his workers didn't do the work satisfying the customers. If Gates had been unable to translate his ideas into product, he wouldn't be a billionaire. And the workers might not have jobs if Bezos had never needed them to make his idea a reality.
Their labor doesn't give them claim to any money made by the company beyond what they have negotiated for as a wage.
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Post by abbey1227 on Jun 15, 2021 9:07:08 GMT
No, merh......once again you're twisting my words and ignoring my observations. I've seen several Minimum Wage hikes in my time.......and it always ends up costing people more in their Cost of Living......than the increase to their wages. Thanks, Govt! ?
I stopped taking cab rides when we visited Vegas as soon as Uber/Lyft became available. $8-12 sounds better than $25 to me....and makes it easier to give a good tip, too. That was also the place I learned how much I'd HATE taking public transportation if that was my only option. Cheaper than a cab? Yes.....but ....ugh! ![[giveup]](//storage.proboards.com/7182076/images/FSYefibmKqtatIXMgHZg.gif) |
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Post by merh on Jun 15, 2021 13:41:44 GMT
No, merh......once again you're twisting my words and ignoring my observations. I've seen several Minimum Wage hikes in my time.......and it always ends up costing people more in their Cost of Living......than the increase to their wages. Thanks, Govt! ?
I stopped taking cab rides when we visited Vegas as soon as Uber/Lyft became available. $8-12 sounds better than $25 to me....and makes it easier to give a good tip, too. That was also the place I learned how much I'd HATE taking public transportation if that was my only option. Cheaper than a cab? Yes.....but ....ugh! So the cost of living hasn't gone up in a decade or so that the minimum wage didn't increase? Or do prices increase anyway? I have rarely taken a cab because I usually have a car, but now I am the only driver in the house, I sometimes need to get places when the car is not available. My 2000 Nissan started overheating the day before Memorial day. 3 mechanics & $2500 later, I have needed to rely on a cab 3 times. |
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Post by merh on Jun 15, 2021 13:44:36 GMT
But having an idea doesn't equal billions. Bezos would be nowhere if his workers didn't do the work satisfying the customers. If Gates had been unable to translate his ideas into product, he wouldn't be a billionaire. And the workers might not have jobs if Bezos had never needed them to make his idea a reality.
Their labor doesn't give them claim to any money made by the company beyond what they have negotiated for as a wage.
But isn't it better to pay people a decent wage? Was Ford wrong to pay more than the going rate to build his cars? He figured it would lower turnover/training costs & allow them to purchase the product which would be advertising. |
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Post by Prometheus on Jun 15, 2021 18:20:10 GMT
And the workers might not have jobs if Bezos had never needed them to make his idea a reality.
Their labor doesn't give them claim to any money made by the company beyond what they have negotiated for as a wage.
But isn't it better to pay people a decent wage? Was Ford wrong to pay more than the going rate to build his cars? He figured it would lower turnover/training costs & allow them to purchase the product which would be advertising. It's better to pay good workers a decent wage because they do better than the ones who are just "decent."
Ford wasn't wrong, but he also fired anyone who made the tiniest mistake. In the end he had the best workers who were worth what he was paying.
I certainly think that Amazon should have better working conditions but that doesn't necessarily translate to "more money."
Will making more money translate into feeling better about having to piss on the floor?
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Post by merh on Jun 15, 2021 19:55:30 GMT
But isn't it better to pay people a decent wage? Was Ford wrong to pay more than the going rate to build his cars? He figured it would lower turnover/training costs & allow them to purchase the product which would be advertising. It's better to pay good workers a decent wage because they do better than the ones who are just "decent."
Ford wasn't wrong, but he also fired anyone who made the tiniest mistake. In the end he had the best workers who were worth what he was paying.
I certainly think that Amazon should have better working conditions but that doesn't necessarily translate to "more money."
Will making more money translate into feeling better about having to piss on the floor?
So having employees promote the business out of pride is bad? I worked ay Jack-in-the-Box when I was 18. I joke they chipped us all to keep returning as customers, but honestly, I have good memories of working there & will go there over most other fast food joints |
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Post by merh on Jun 16, 2021 2:12:24 GMT
But isn't it better to pay people a decent wage? Was Ford wrong to pay more than the going rate to build his cars? He figured it would lower turnover/training costs & allow them to purchase the product which would be advertising. It's better to pay good workers a decent wage because they do better than the ones who are just "decent."
Ford wasn't wrong, but he also fired anyone who made the tiniest mistake. In the end he had the best workers who were worth what he was paying.
I certainly think that Amazon should have better working conditions but that doesn't necessarily translate to "more money."
Will making more money translate into feeling better about having to piss on the floor?
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Post by Prometheus on Jun 16, 2021 2:13:04 GMT
It's better to pay good workers a decent wage because they do better than the ones who are just "decent."
Ford wasn't wrong, but he also fired anyone who made the tiniest mistake. In the end he had the best workers who were worth what he was paying.
I certainly think that Amazon should have better working conditions but that doesn't necessarily translate to "more money."
Will making more money translate into feeling better about having to piss on the floor?
So having employees promote the business out of pride is bad? I worked ay Jack-in-the-Box when I was 18. I joke they chipped us all to keep returning as customers, but honestly, I have good memories of working there & will go there over most other fast food joints One issue does not dismiss another. No wonder you and Abbey get along so well....
I think being a loyal employee is an important part of the general work ethic.
I'm not sure what you're trying to get at but in the end, employees are just that: employees - someone paid by management to perform a certain set of tasks within the guidelines set for by the employer in return for a particular wage. If the work environment is hazardous or otherwise violates some state or federal law, employees have several avenues of recourse.
Concerned consumers also have avenues of recourse, not the least of which is getting up off of their lazy asses and going to a brick and mortar store. If they insist on being lazy, they can still shop with the competition. Sure, they might pay a bit more, but isn't that extra cash worth it to know you're screwing over Jeff Bezos?
Of course, when sales at Amazon go down, you'll also be responsible for costing people their jobs, but you still screwed Bezos, right?
I mean. he'll still have billions of dollars and more people will be out of work but at least you taught him a lesson!
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Post by Prometheus on Jun 16, 2021 2:20:03 GMT
It's better to pay good workers a decent wage because they do better than the ones who are just "decent."
Ford wasn't wrong, but he also fired anyone who made the tiniest mistake. In the end he had the best workers who were worth what he was paying.
I certainly think that Amazon should have better working conditions but that doesn't necessarily translate to "more money."
Will making more money translate into feeling better about having to piss on the floor?
Yup.
You can't really put all the blame on Grady of Stravan.
The narrator should have taken time to figure out what he was getting himself into before signing the employment contract.
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Post by abbey1227 on Jun 16, 2021 2:49:31 GMT
But isn't it better to pay people a decent wage? Was Ford wrong to pay more than the going rate to build his cars? He figured it would lower turnover/training costs & allow them to purchase the product which would be advertising. It's better to pay good workers a decent wage because they do better than the ones who are just "decent."
Ford wasn't wrong, but he also fired anyone who made the tiniest mistake. In the end he had the best workers who were worth what he was paying.
I certainly think that Amazon should have better working conditions but that doesn't necessarily translate to "more money."
Will making more money translate into feeling better about having to piss on the floor?
It's been brought up before........with the implementation of the assembly line, Ford cut his time to build a car down tremendously..........he even lowered the price as his costs (even with DOUBLE the current labor rate) kept dropping. IIRC, the car started out at about $800-1200? and after all the improvements to time savings/labor spent......they were heading out the door for $295.
That is just not the case for most businesses these days. Especially restaurants where the competition is so fierce and the Costs are very tightly controlled as it is.
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Post by Prometheus on Jun 16, 2021 3:03:43 GMT
It's better to pay good workers a decent wage because they do better than the ones who are just "decent."
Ford wasn't wrong, but he also fired anyone who made the tiniest mistake. In the end he had the best workers who were worth what he was paying.
I certainly think that Amazon should have better working conditions but that doesn't necessarily translate to "more money."
Will making more money translate into feeling better about having to piss on the floor?
It's been brought up before........with the implementation of the assembly line, Ford cut his time to build a car down tremendously..........he even lowered the price as his costs (even with DOUBLE the current labor rate) kept dropping. IIRC, the car started out at about $800-1200? and after all the improvements to time savings/labor spent......they were heading out the door for $295.
That is just not the case for most businesses these days. Especially restaurants where the competition is so fierce and the Costs are very tightly controlled as it is.
Ford also understood the concept of selling in volume... much like fast food joints.
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Post by abbey1227 on Jun 16, 2021 3:15:07 GMT
It's been brought up before........with the implementation of the assembly line, Ford cut his time to build a car down tremendously..........he even lowered the price as his costs (even with DOUBLE the current labor rate) kept dropping. IIRC, the car started out at about $800-1200? and after all the improvements to time savings/labor spent......they were heading out the door for $295.
That is just not the case for most businesses these days. Especially restaurants where the competition is so fierce and the Costs are very tightly controlled as it is.
Ford also understood the concept of selling in volume... much like fast food joints.
I sometimes refer to it as the Walmart approach........but it was around long before them and called the Fast Nickel versus the Slow Dime method
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Post by merh on Jun 16, 2021 5:28:11 GMT
Been looking for this since it aired.
Just found it, but can't find the shorter version so one would jump in around 24 minutes.
Apparently Amazon is worried they will run out of employees.
It seems Bezos is of the opinion people are lazy so he'd rather fire them all, hire new, but it's possible they will run out of people willing to deal with the crap as he burns through so many
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