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Post by abbey1227 on May 24, 2021 2:58:27 GMT
And - surprise, surprise - the states with the highest incarceration rates are "red."  Louisiana 980 1,280 45,700 Oklahoma 970 1,290 38,500 Mississippi 920 1,210 27,500 Georgia 850 1,110 89,700 Kentucky 840 1,080 37,500 Alabama 820 1,060 40,400 Arkansas 820 1,070 24,700 Arizona 750 980 54,600 Texas 750 1,010 218,000 Tennessee 730 930 49,300
Couldn't that be just stat picking though? Only Texas is part of the highest population numbers.
FYI: The District of Columbia tops the list for violent crime. The cradle of US democracy? How can this be? ![[giveup]](//storage.proboards.com/7182076/images/FSYefibmKqtatIXMgHZg.gif) New Mexico Alaska. Louisiana. Arkansas. ... Alabama. ... Tennessee. ... Arizona. ... Oklahoma. ... Kansas. ... South Carolina. ...
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There's also the funny phenomena that when you stop even counting a crime as a crime.......Voila! crime goes away? ![[rolleye1]](//storage.proboards.com/7182076/images/MTjbungPBOzv0BKQvdPJ.gif)
Within one week of retiring and claiming that he was very proud of the drop in crime in the area......... our local city reinstalled it's crime suppression unit because of increases in shootings and stabbings.  |
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Post by ant-mac on May 24, 2021 3:31:12 GMT
Louisiana 980 1,280 45,700 Oklahoma 970 1,290 38,500 Mississippi 920 1,210 27,500 Georgia 850 1,110 89,700 Kentucky 840 1,080 37,500 Alabama 820 1,060 40,400 Arkansas 820 1,070 24,700 Arizona 750 980 54,600 Texas 750 1,010 218,000 Tennessee 730 930 49,300
Couldn't that be just stat picking though? Only Texas is part of the highest population numbers.
FYI: The District of Columbia tops the list for violent crime. The cradle of US democracy? How can this be? New Mexico Alaska. Louisiana. Arkansas. ... Alabama. ... Tennessee. ... Arizona. ... Oklahoma. ... Kansas. ... South Carolina. ...
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There's also the funny phenomena that when you stop even counting a crime as a crime.......Voila! crime goes away?
Within one week of retiring and claiming that he was very proud of the drop in crime in the area......... our local city reinstalled it's crime suppression unit because of increases in shootings and stabbings. Very impressive - or alarming? - incarceration stats, but is it really about crime prevention, or... Is it actually about maintaining the lucrative income for those involved in running the "prison–industrial complex"? I've heard there are some who believe that the desire for monetary gain through prison privatization has led to the growth of the prison industry and contributed to the increase of incarcerated individuals, also known as mass incarceration. |
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Post by abbey1227 on May 24, 2021 3:34:44 GMT
Very impressive - or alarming? - incarceration stats, but is it really about crime prevention, or... Is it actually about maintaining the lucrative income for those involved in running the "prison–industrial complex"? I've heard there are some who believe that the desire for monetary gain through prison privatization has led to the growth of the prison industry and contributed to the increase of incarcerated individuals, also known as mass incarceration.
I'm sure it's a mixture of both.
Why is it a problem if Private makes money?......but the Govt running things all by itself doing the same is perfectly fine?
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Post by ant-mac on May 24, 2021 3:52:53 GMT
Very impressive - or alarming? - incarceration stats, but is it really about crime prevention, or... Is it actually about maintaining the lucrative income for those involved in running the "prison–industrial complex"? I've heard there are some who believe that the desire for monetary gain through prison privatization has led to the growth of the prison industry and contributed to the increase of incarcerated individuals, also known as mass incarceration.
I'm sure it's a mixture of both.
Why is it a problem if Private makes money?......but the Govt running things all by itself doing the same is perfectly fine?
Money or profit should not be the ultimate goal for every field of endeavour. When it is, the well being of people soon becomes a secondary consideration. Unadulterated capitalism is one of most insidious and toxic cancers eating away at the carcass of modern western society. Government should provide the core essential services for society. Basic services in accommodation, communication, energy, food, water, health, law enforcement, education, transportation and so on and so forth. These services should seek to make just enough profit to pay for and maintain their equipment, personnel and service continuation. If people want anything extra, above and beyond the bare minimum, or non-essential services, that's where the private sector should come in. |
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Post by papamihel on May 24, 2021 4:52:11 GMT
Are the attacks against AAPI also "pogroms"? Are they constant and consistent and widespread? Are there mass movements supporting those attacks? Are there major political parties supporting such mass movements? Does media cover them up or explain that they are nothing special? |
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Post by abbey1227 on May 24, 2021 7:15:32 GMT
Money or profit should not be the ultimate goal for every field of endeavour. When it is, the well being of people soon becomes a secondary consideration. Unadulterated capitalism is one of most insidious and toxic cancers eating away at the carcass of modern western society. Government should provide the core essential services for society. Basic services in accommodation, communication, energy, food, water, health, law enforcement, education, transportation and so on and so forth. These services should seek to make just enough profit to pay for and maintain their equipment, personnel and service continuation. If people want anything extra, above and beyond the bare minimum, or non-essential services, that's where the private sector should come in.
I don't think profits are the ultimate goal for everyone and everything..........BUT without it, you have no sustainability.
Govt would do well to do a better job of generating profits, as opposed to always relying on those who make profits......while also decrying those that make profits.
I could go either way with that last part........ on the one hand, welfare and education in the US and other programs actually provide a heckuva lot more than the basics, imo
but at the same time, it's kinda tough to not notice that the Govt recently went above and beyond to provide for all the Illegals at the border..........while the homeless and Vets in the US continue to be ignored.
It's still a matter of finite resources and having the balls to say "No" to someone
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Post by ant-mac on May 24, 2021 10:59:37 GMT
Money or profit should not be the ultimate goal for every field of endeavour. When it is, the well being of people soon becomes a secondary consideration. Unadulterated capitalism is one of most insidious and toxic cancers eating away at the carcass of modern western society. Government should provide the core essential services for society. Basic services in accommodation, communication, energy, food, water, health, law enforcement, education, transportation and so on and so forth. These services should seek to make just enough profit to pay for and maintain their equipment, personnel and service continuation. If people want anything extra, above and beyond the bare minimum, or non-essential services, that's where the private sector should come in.
I don't think profits are the ultimate goal for everyone and everything..........BUT without it, you have no sustainability.
Govt would do well to do a better job of generating profits, as opposed to always relying on those who make profits......while also decrying those that make profits.
I could go either way with that last part........ on the one hand, welfare and education in the US and other programs actually provide a heckuva lot more than the basics, imo
but at the same time, it's kinda tough to not notice that the Govt recently went above and beyond to provide for all the Illegals at the border..........while the homeless and Vets in the US continue to be ignored.
It's still a matter of finite resources and having the balls to say "No" to someone
1. Then you haven't been paying attention to how capitalism works... it's primary goal is money. Big pharma, big petroleum, big tobacco, etcetera. Of course you can still have sustainability... not just as many profits. And you might even increase the sustainability for those who actually have a lot less to live on. 2. Government would do a better job if it focused on the quality of life of its citizens. And in America, it should focus on the well fare of individuals more than on the well fare of big business. 3. Then you need to stop looking inward and start looking around the globe more. 4. Are you referring to the fact that it followed international law in regards to refugees? Trust me, they could still do a lot more. And I can't understand how a politician can be paid more, or have more benefits, than a soldier who has served, suffered and sometimes paid the ultimate price for their country. 5. It should be a matter of having the balls to say, "No" to those who already have too much and see that those who don't have enough have their needs attended to. PS - And I'm not focused just of the US, I'm referring to a broader range of nations. |
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Post by abbey1227 on May 24, 2021 11:10:34 GMT
1. Then you haven't been paying attention to how capitalism works... it's primary goal is money. Big pharma, big petroleum, big tobacco, etcetera. Of course you can still have sustainability... not just as many profits. And you might even increase the sustainability for those who actually have a lot less to live on. 2. Government would do a better job if it focused on the quality of life of its citizens. And in America, it should focus on the well fare of individuals more than on the well fare of big business. 3. Then you need to stop looking inward and start looking around the globe more. 4. Are you referring to the fact that it followed international law in regards to refugees? Trust me, they could still do a lot more.
And I can't understand how a politician can be paid more, or have more benefits, than a soldier who has served, suffered and sometimes paid the ultimate price for their country.5. It should be a matter of having the balls to say, "No" to those who already have too much and see that those who don't have enough have their needs attended to.PS - And I'm not focused just of the US, I'm referring to a broader range of nations.
1. Capitalism as it's been practiced here has lifted more people out of poverty than any govt programs, imo
2. Govt as it's practiced here is far more concerned with providing power, wealth and luxury to the politicians.
3. I believe I've seen enough of humanity and history to know how most humans behave.
4. International law? pfffft Yet another area where some are still stuck paying for many others.
Politicians have influence to sell. Soldiers, like my older brother, are simply disposable pawns in their eyes.
Needs? or Wants? If I gave you all the money you'd need to feed and clothe yourself......but you decided instead to gamble it, snort it or drink it instead......should I still be obliged to provide for you?
Please, refer to my earlier comment on humanity. Palestine and HAMAS, for example. They've been given how much money over the years in charitable aid? And they've instead bought how many rockets and built tunnels instead of hospitals?
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Post by Prometheus on May 24, 2021 11:33:53 GMT
Are the attacks against AAPI also "pogroms"? Kinda Just general ignorance and racism. But give it time. There is a major political party that promoted the hatred behind the attacks. Nope. The media just ignored them until there was a bandwagon to be on. That said, let me know when the AAPI community has a 6,000-year-old religion based on victimhood and we can revisit a couple of those. You also might want to take into consideration that Israel has the support of major political parties as well... at least as long "Muslims" are the shared enemy. You better hope things don't heat up with China, because if and when they do that support is going to blow away like fart in a hurricane due to shifting priorities. Let's face it, you folks over there have been fighting over the same rocks, sand, and a few olive trees for millennia and probably will be for centuries or millennia more. I'm a bit tired of the US getting dragged down into your constant squabbling. I think we should be completely hands off while you all sort shit out for yourselves, but I know that's never going to happen. One last thing: the fact that your support comes from rightist parties is a big part of why your enemies get the support of the leftists. It's a "the friend of my enemy is my enemy" sort of thing. Most people in government - and the rank and file civilians for that matter - are really no longer capable of nuanced thinking. |
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Post by ant-mac on May 24, 2021 12:10:26 GMT
1. And how many more have fallen below the poverty line because of it?
How many more struggle just to survive because of it?
2. Of not, they also ensure big business, rich friends and influential lobbyists are also taken care of.
3. Then you should agree that it's time for change.
4. International law benefits and disadvantages everyone... just in different ways.
5. Then it's time to change that shit.
6. And what if I bought food and clothes with your money?
What if it helped me to pull myself up out of the gutter and, in time, help others too?
7. There will always be some people who cannot or do not want to be helped... that is no reason to ignore those who need and want help.
Would you consider Germany or Japan's recovery after WWII to be a failure?
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Post by papamihel on May 24, 2021 14:31:25 GMT
Kinda Just general ignorance and racism. But give it time. Nope. The media just ignored them until there was a bandwagon to be on. That said, let me know when the AAPI community has a 6,000-year-old religion based on victimhood and we can revisit a couple of those. Xenophobia is pretty universal and every culture has some prejudice ingrained deeply within its very core. In case of Asians there is often no specific cultural bias involved - just your regular aversion to other rooted in a prehistoric survival instinct. Nowadays, of course, there's also COVID and all sorts of ugly misconceptions. When it comes to Islanders and Aboriginals there is an added layer of cultural prejudice toward primitives. It was kind of thing in 19th century adventure books and there's at least 5 generations who grew up on that stuff. My guess it leads more to discrimination (work, study) than violence. But I could be wrong. Now I'm not trying to win the Victimhood Olympics but in every real hate crime survey all over the civilized war Jews and Africans share the top two places. There are reasons for that. In case of Jews we are talking about something like 1000 years of cultural bias. That's a lot of baggage. It might not be as powerful as our biological programming but it does affect us. Everyone of us. And unless one is not self-aware enough to be able to confront and process these things they will always be tempted to find a justification for their inherited prejudice. No matter what are their political leanings. I'm not talking about Israel. I'm talking about Jews. And trying to tell you that the situation would have been very different if Israel wasn't Jewish. We folks over here have been fighting over the same rocks, sand and a few olive trees with other people. That's another thing most people prefer not to understand. Most Arab Muslim clans you call "palestinians" formed about a hundred years ago when folks from all over region came to British Palestine lured by the Zionist economic boom. There are old families too, of course, but these tend to have a very different relationship with their neighbors. Including the Jews. I'm not talking about other minorities here - Christians, Druze, Samaritans and so on. These have lived here for ages. Bedouins moved all over the region probably since before it was Canaan. But if we are talking about Muslims: they were part of the population in a few major cities and held some bandit villages. Otherwise it's up North (and they still live here as Arab Israelis) or what is now Jordan. And BTW this wasn't always rocks and sand. Judea used to be pretty green. The Ottomans deforested it almost totally when building the railroads. It's becoming green again, by the way. Jews planted plenty of forests and now are making wine in the desert. Israel is an American client-state. One of the most useful. We can't be milked for resources but we make it up to you in brain-power. That's actually not what happened. Israel was created as a Middle-Eastern satellite of the mighty USSR. I know folks who remember Soviet newspapers writing about "the heroic struggle of the Jewish people against Arab imperialism". That was the time when almost the entire world's Left was ran by Moscow so the progressives loved Israel then. It changed somewhere mid-50s. Could have been Israel gravitating towards the US, could have been Khrushchev's Antisemitism... Possibly both. But once the Soviets decided to switch their support to Arabs so did every liberal in the West. You might not like this or even believe me but a lot of attitudes most liberal movements of the world share they inherited from the USSR era. And includes classifying medieval religious zealots of the Arab world as the oppressed. Which automatically makes their "Zionist enemy"(TM) - the oppressors. But again, that has nothing to do with the pogroms and attacks on Jews in the West these very days. That's just an excuse. |
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Post by abbey1227 on May 24, 2021 15:07:07 GMT
Now I'm not trying to win the Victimhood Olympics but in every real hate crime survey all over the civilized war Jews and Africans share the top two places. There are reasons for that. In case of Jews we are talking about something like 1000 years of cultural bias. That's a lot of baggage. You might not like this or even believe me but a lot of attitudes most liberal movements of the world share they inherited from the USSR era. And includes classifying medieval religious zealots of the Arab world as the oppressed. Which automatically makes their "Zionist enemy"(TM) - the oppressors. But again, that has nothing to do with the pogroms and attacks on Jews in the West these very days. That's just an excuse.
I could be completely off base here.......stuck in my own little pond that I am....... but I just really get the impression that in the US, whenever there's some Jew bashing going on, it seems like it's that very olde attitude of just pure Envy covered over by racism. When one specific group seems to do well financially, it brings out some really demented forms of animosity that I frankly do not understand. Unless the guy had those little twisty curls hanging off the side of his face.......how the heck would someone even know if they were Jewish anyway?
And to that point about the USSR......... that's kinda the same theme with most collectivism. Misery loves company........and since the truly successful are usually a smaller voting minority, it just makes great political sense to run on taking down that wealthy minority in the name of 'Diversity, Equity & Inclusion". (I think they should change the order of those words so the acronym would be D.I.E.!!)
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Post by papamihel on May 24, 2021 16:56:19 GMT
In case of Jews we are talking about something like 1000 years of cultural bias.
I could be completely off base here.......stuck in my own little pond that I am....... but I just really get the impression that in the US, whenever there's some Jew bashing going on, it seems like it's that very olde attitude of just pure Envy covered over by racism. When one specific group seems to do well financially, it brings out some really demented forms of animosity that I frankly do not understand. Envy is certainly a factor in social\class\personal tensions in general. And I know plenty of Jews who subscribe to this point of view. But financial envy is mostly a domain of losers and Antisemitism is a lot more widespread. I mean, I have a friend who works in Switzerland and keeps hearing little jokes about "filthy rich Jews". And that's Zurich I'm talking about where you can pave streets with superrich native bankers. |
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Post by abbey1227 on May 24, 2021 17:07:07 GMT
Envy is certainly a factor in social\class\personal tensions in general. And I know plenty of Jews who subscribe to this point of view. But financial envy is mostly a domain of losers and Antisemitism is a lot more widespread. I mean, I have a friend who works in Switzerland and keeps hearing little jokes about "filthy rich Jews". And that's Zurich I'm talking about where you can pave streets with superrich native bankers.
Well, we've got plenty of those in the US........and pretty much the entire education system is promoting class warfare, so there's that, as well.
I don't think I've ever bumped into an Orthodox, though. I do personally know one Jewish family and they're very successful in town.
Apparently, it's been a shrinking population the last few decades here.
But it still strikes me that I wouldn't know the difference unless I was told of their specific religion or genealogy.
So the real haters must be making some sort of effort to identify their victims.
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Post by Prometheus on May 25, 2021 3:30:30 GMT
Xenophobia is pretty universal and every culture has some prejudice ingrained deeply within its very core. In case of Asians there is often no specific cultural bias involved - just your regular aversion to other rooted in a prehistoric survival instinct. Nowadays, of course, there's also COVID and all sorts of ugly misconceptions. When it comes to Islanders and Aboriginals there is an added layer of cultural prejudice toward primitives. It was kind of thing in 19th century adventure books and there's at least 5 generations who grew up on that stuff. My guess it leads more to discrimination (work, study) than violence. But I could be wrong. Now I'm not trying to win the Victimhood Olympics but in every real hate crime survey all over the civilized war Jews and Africans share the top two places. There are reasons for that. In case of Jews we are talking about something like 1000 years of cultural bias. That's a lot of baggage. It might not be as powerful as our biological programming but it does affect us. Everyone of us. And unless one is not self-aware enough to be able to confront and process these things they will always be tempted to find a justification for their inherited prejudice. No matter what are their political leanings. I'm not talking about Israel. I'm talking about Jews. And trying to tell you that the situation would have been very different if Israel wasn't Jewish. We folks over here have been fighting over the same rocks, sand and a few olive trees with other people. That's another thing most people prefer not to understand. Most Arab Muslim clans you call "palestinians" formed about a hundred years ago when folks from all over region came to British Palestine lured by the Zionist economic boom. There are old families too, of course, but these tend to have a very different relationship with their neighbors. Including the Jews. I'm not talking about other minorities here - Christians, Druze, Samaritans and so on. These have lived here for ages. Bedouins moved all over the region probably since before it was Canaan. But if we are talking about Muslims: they were part of the population in a few major cities and held some bandit villages. Otherwise it's up North (and they still live here as Arab Israelis) or what is now Jordan. And BTW this wasn't always rocks and sand. Judea used to be pretty green. The Ottomans deforested it almost totally when building the railroads. It's becoming green again, by the way. Jews planted plenty of forests and now are making wine in the desert. Israel is an American client-state. One of the most useful. We can't be milked for resources but we make it up to you in brain-power. That's actually not what happened. Israel was created as a Middle-Eastern satellite of the mighty USSR. I know folks who remember Soviet newspapers writing about "the heroic struggle of the Jewish people against Arab imperialism". That was the time when almost the entire world's Left was ran by Moscow so the progressives loved Israel then. It changed somewhere mid-50s. Could have been Israel gravitating towards the US, could have been Khrushchev's Antisemitism... Possibly both. But once the Soviets decided to switch their support to Arabs so did every liberal in the West. You might not like this or even believe me but a lot of attitudes most liberal movements of the world share they inherited from the USSR era. And includes classifying medieval religious zealots of the Arab world as the oppressed. Which automatically makes their "Zionist enemy"(TM) - the oppressors. But again, that has nothing to do with the pogroms and attacks on Jews in the West these very days. That's just an excuse. It's not personal at all, PM. I actually do like you... mostly because you can speak to your convictions convincingly. ![[cheers]](//storage.proboards.com/7182076/images/engyBVslEdpmpmdnBwZQ.gif)
There's a lot that you wrote that is absolutely true about xenophobia and so on, but again we're back to "nuanced thinking." I actually mentioned in some other thread that now that the AAPI community is "speaking out" the benefits they have enjoyed as the "model minority" will actually go away and the racism will get worse.
The crack about "rocks, sand and olive trees" was just antagonistic frustration... but not without historicity. The Levant and (more broadly) the areas of ancient Mesopotamia have been the location for more wars and struggles in the past 8,000 years than probably any other place on Earth including the areas now known as China and India.
The one thing that you said that really has me thinking is, "[T]he situation would have been very different if Israel wasn't Jewish."
I don't think Israel would even exist (as it does today or even as it did in '48) if it weren't Jewish. Whether you like it or not, the state of Israel was gifted (regardless of what Ben-Gurion thought) to the nation of Israel as an apology for the Holocaust as well as that other thousand years of cultural bias that you mentioned. It exists as an indulgence paid for the expiation of our collective sins... and we never got a "thank you" note in the mail. All we keep getting are calls to keep helping and helping and helping even though the indulgence has been paid. It's like those Christian pastors passing the collection plate every week even though the roof of the church has been fixed, the stained glass windows cleaned, and the food bank filled to overflowing. When does it end? When will those past sins finally be forgiven?
And let's face another fact: Israelis have bound "Jewishness" so tightly to their identity that one cannot condemn the actions of the state of Israel without being called an anti-Semite. Gotta keep playing on the guilt... like any good Jewish mother.
Because of that, you end up with a bunch of people saying, "If I'm going t be called an anti-Semite no matter what, I might as well go all-in."
Self-perpetuating victimhood.
But if you ever want to export some Israeli wine to China, let me know. I've got an Argentinian friend who is an importer.
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Post by papamihel on May 25, 2021 5:01:45 GMT
It's not personal at all, PM. I actually do like you... mostly because you can speak to your convictions convincingly. Oh no, I don't believe you are attacking me. It's just there are so many misconceptions about the Middle-East and Israel. I think it's because it's a very visible and emotionally charged issue but not a lot of people have an intellectual interest in our neck of the woods. You know, I don't think there's any evidence this even came up. First of all, the commitment to creation of a Jewish state predates that 1947 UN resolution by 30 years. There was the Balfour Declaration and the League of Nations decision. But the political realities were shifting. Each British government changed their stance and there was always oil to consider. Only after the Mandate was dissolved this whole thing started moving forward. And, in case you are not aware, the Brits and the French created a bunch of new countries at the time. Just look at the unnaturally straight borders of some of the countries in the region - you can just imagine a couple of old Euro guys sipping brandy and playing with their rulers. Anyway, I don't know why some of the countries voted in favor but in most cases it was local Jewish communities purchasing their government's vote. The US certainly was going to be opposed (oil and fear that the Soviets will use it to gain influence with Arab powers because of... well, again oil) until rich Jewish lobbyists pressured the Administration. There were several South-American member-states who did not participate in the war and I doubt they cared or even knew about the camps and mass executions. And then, of course, there was the Soviet Union who didn't veto the resolution and brought 5 or 6 votes to the "in favor" team. Israel was made for one very specific reason - to serve as a life-boat for Jewish people. When Zionism came to be no one could have even imagined what one of the most civilized and cultured nations in the world would become. Yet Jews were persecuted all over the place and even in more developed countries there was strong prejudice. Israel exists so that Jews would. I am not saying our state and\or government above criticism. God knows, our political system is abhorrent and I think our current government and the Knesset should be tried and summarily executed for fucking up the country, not providing protection to its citizens and their CV19 response. But you might try to consider that there's a lot of hypocrisy when it comes to criticizing Israel. That cultural bias plays a very big role. So does religion - mostly from Muslims (although there is a shift). Or ideology - when it comes to Nazis and various breeds of neo-Marxists. That does sound interesting |
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Post by Prometheus on May 25, 2021 6:16:45 GMT
It's not personal at all, PM. I actually do like you... mostly because you can speak to your convictions convincingly. Oh no, I don't believe you are attacking me. It's just there are so many misconceptions about the Middle-East and Israel. I think it's because it's a very visible and emotionally charged issue but not a lot of people have an intellectual interest in our neck of the woods. You know, I don't think there's any evidence this even came up. First of all, the commitment to creation of a Jewish state predates that 1947 UN resolution by 30 years. There was the Balfour Declaration and the League of Nations decision. But the political realities were shifting. Each British government changed their stance and there was always oil to consider. Only after the Mandate was dissolved this whole thing started moving forward. And, in case you are not aware, the Brits and the French created a bunch of new countries at the time. Just look at the unnaturally straight borders of some of the countries in the region - you can just imagine a couple of old Euro guys sipping brandy and playing with their rulers. Anyway, I don't know why some of the countries voted in favor but in most cases it was local Jewish communities purchasing their government's vote. The US certainly was going to be opposed (oil and fear that the Soviets will use it to gain influence with Arab powers because of... well, again oil) until rich Jewish lobbyists pressured the Administration. There were several South-American member-states who did not participate in the war and I doubt they cared or even knew about the camps and mass executions. And then, of course, there was the Soviet Union who didn't veto the resolution and brought 5 or 6 votes to the "in favor" team. Israel was made for one very specific reason - to serve as a life-boat for Jewish people. When Zionism came to be no one could have even imagined what one of the most civilized and cultured nations in the world would become. Yet Jews were persecuted all over the place and even in more developed countries there was strong prejudice. Israel exists so that Jews would. I am not saying our state and\or government above criticism. God knows, our political system is abhorrent and I think our current government and the Knesset should be tried and summarily executed for fucking up the country, not providing protection to its citizens and their CV19 response. But you might try to consider that there's a lot of hypocrisy when it comes to criticizing Israel. That cultural bias plays a very big role. So does religion - mostly from Muslims (although there is a shift). Or ideology - when it comes to Nazis and various breeds of neo-Marxists. That does sound interesting And we're back to "nuanced thinking."
In the end, I'm still not going to pick a side, because - as ant-mac said - there's plenty of blame to go around.
If Palestinian sympathizers are beating up Jews in the US (or anywhere else), I condemn those acts.
If Israeli sympathizers are beating up Palestinians or there sympathizers in the US (or anywhere else), I condemn those as well.
Keep your fight to your own back yard.
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Post by papamihel on May 25, 2021 6:43:54 GMT
Keep your fight to your own back yard.
We'd love to but someone always interferes. |
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Post by Prometheus on May 25, 2021 7:11:19 GMT
Keep your fight to your own back yard.
We'd love to but someone always interferes. If I were POTUS, it wouldn't be me. |
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Post by papamihel on May 25, 2021 7:20:56 GMT
We'd love to but someone always interferes. If I were POTUS, it wouldn't be me. Well, it's not just the US, you know. |
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