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Post by abbey1227 on Jun 30, 2022 2:05:37 GMT
Truck tragedy a reminder of struggle to stop migrant deathsBy CHRIS MEGERIAN and ELLIOT SPAGAT June 28, 2022
It's a very easy fix.
Just stop referring to these deaths as 'Illegal'. Problem solved.
See what I did there?
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Post by ant-mac on Jun 30, 2022 4:38:21 GMT
Truck tragedy a reminder of struggle to stop migrant deathsBy CHRIS MEGERIAN and ELLIOT SPAGAT June 28, 2022
See what I did there?
Ignore the problem? |
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Post by hairynosedwombat on Jun 30, 2022 12:32:37 GMT
Truck tragedy a reminder of struggle to stop migrant deathsBy CHRIS MEGERIAN and ELLIOT SPAGAT June 28, 2022
It's a very easy fix.
Just stop referring to these deaths as 'Illegal'. Problem solved.
See what I did there?
No. I have no idea what you did there. However your idea has merit. Migrants are illegal due to American legislatures penchant for making everything that is not compulsory, illegal. The problem with migration to the US is that you can't process them adequately. Calling them illegal only gives one option, prison, which then becomes your problem in enforcement and building prisons. Adequate border processing and adequate enforcement of visa regulations, especially cracking down on employers of unlawful migrants might make your lettuces and domestic servants more expensive but is likely to be the only thing that reduces the flood of immigrants. |
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Post by abbey1227 on Jun 30, 2022 12:55:31 GMT
<abbr class="o-timestamp time" title="Jun 30, 2022 7:32:37 GMT -5" data-timestamp="1656592357000">Jun 30, 2022 7:32:37 GMT -5</abbr> hairynosedwombat said:
It's a very easy fix.
Just stop referring to these deaths as 'Illegal'. Problem solved.
See what I did there?
No. I have no idea what you did there. However your idea has merit. Migrants are illegal due to American legislatures penchant for making everything that is not compulsory, illegal. The problem with migration to the US is that you can't process them adequately. Calling them illegal only gives one option, prison, which then becomes your problem in enforcement and building prisons. Adequate border processing and adequate enforcement of visa regulations, especially cracking down on employers of unlawful migrants might make your lettuces and domestic servants more expensive but is likely to be the only thing that reduces the flood of immigrants.
Actually, I think the 1st option should be immediate deportation with the severe scolding of never being allowed back in for breaking the law. THEN, if it happens again or a third time.......use the military to drop them off in some far away land.
Prison should be reserved for violent criminals.
I don't even have a problem with legal Guest Worker visas.........but if they can keep Area 51 secure, they can surely do a much better job with our borders. They just choose not likely because some lobbyists or donors don't want them to enforce the law. Maybe even the Teachers Union
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Post by Prometheus on Jun 30, 2022 23:45:20 GMT
Truck tragedy a reminder of struggle to stop migrant deathsBy CHRIS MEGERIAN and ELLIOT SPAGAT June 28, 2022
It's a very easy fix.
Just stop referring to these deaths as 'Illegal'. Problem solved.
See what I did there?
No. I have no idea what you did there. However your idea has merit. Migrants are illegal due to American legislatures penchant for making everything that is not compulsory, illegal. The problem with migration to the US is that you can't process them adequately. Calling them illegal only gives one option, prison, which then becomes your problem in enforcement and building prisons. Adequate border processing and adequate enforcement of visa regulations, especially cracking down on employers of unlawful migrants might make your lettuces and domestic servants more expensive but is likely to be the only thing that reduces the flood of immigrants. And there's the rub: Abs would never stand against "capitalism" even if it meant stopping a problem that he can't stop bitching about.
Let's face it, if the government cracked down on the people hiring immigrants and the number of illegals reduced to a trickle, the resulting inflation would just cause Abs to bitch about government interference in the marketplace.
However, Abbey has no problem with aiming machine guns from the top of The Wall (TM) and killing thousands of "invaders."
Of course, if we kill all the "invaders," then the businesses that used to hire illegals will then have to hire citizens and the prices will go up anyway.
I'm pretty sure Abs likes the second option better because there's no "government interference" and he gets the added bonus of fewer brown people in the world.
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Post by abbey1227 on Jul 1, 2022 2:21:18 GMT
And there's the rub: Abs would never stand against "capitalism" even if it meant stopping a problem that he can't stop bitching about.
Let's face it, if the government cracked down on the people hiring immigrants and the number of illegals reduced to a trickle, the resulting inflation would just cause Abs to bitch about government interference in the marketplace.
However, Abbey has no problem with aiming machine guns from the top of The Wall (TM) and killing thousands of "invaders."
Of course, if we kill all the "invaders," then the businesses that used to hire illegals will then have to hire citizens and the prices will go up anyway.
I'm pretty sure Abs likes the second option better because there's no "government interference" and he gets the added bonus of fewer brown people in the world.
Can you think of another way of getting wages to go up WITHOUT mandating a higher minimum wage?
I want all hard working Americans, of all colors, to receive a decent wage.
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Post by Prometheus on Jul 1, 2022 2:45:44 GMT
And there's the rub: Abs would never stand against "capitalism" even if it meant stopping a problem that he can't stop bitching about.
Let's face it, if the government cracked down on the people hiring immigrants and the number of illegals reduced to a trickle, the resulting inflation would just cause Abs to bitch about government interference in the marketplace.
However, Abbey has no problem with aiming machine guns from the top of The Wall (TM) and killing thousands of "invaders."
Of course, if we kill all the "invaders," then the businesses that used to hire illegals will then have to hire citizens and the prices will go up anyway.
I'm pretty sure Abs likes the second option better because there's no "government interference" and he gets the added bonus of fewer brown people in the world.
Can you think of another way of getting wages to go up WITHOUT mandating a higher minimum wage?
I want all hard working Americans, of all colors, to receive a decent wage.
Ummm... without the illegals the business owners would be bound by minimum wage laws. That's not "wages going up." That's cheaters not being allowed to cheat. |
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Post by hairynosedwombat on Jul 1, 2022 5:49:08 GMT
Can you think of another way of getting wages to go up WITHOUT mandating a higher minimum wage?
I want all hard working Americans, of all colors, to receive a decent wage.
Ummm... without the illegals the business owners would be bound by minimum wage laws. That's not "wages going up." That's cheaters not being allowed to cheat. One of the things Karl Marx got right was the power inbalance between those with and without capital, that is, employers and employees. Employers in most circumstance (and always with the lowest paid and lowest skilled jobs) can give whatever they want as payment, with little consideration for value added. External input, usually in the form of a mandated minimum wage is needed, otherwise serfdom or slavery are the end result. And the argument that higher wages leads to fewer jobs is bogus. Wages are just one expense. Premises rent, insurance, cost of equipment and consumables are equally important. If an employer can't pay proper prices for any of those the business is not viable. Wages are the only expenses usually mentioned because it is the only expense easily within the employers power. As mentioned, serfdom and slavery were once considered good answers to this dilemma. |
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Post by abbey1227 on Jul 1, 2022 11:33:56 GMT
Can you think of another way of getting wages to go up WITHOUT mandating a higher minimum wage?
I want all hard working Americans, of all colors, to receive a decent wage.
Ummm... without the illegals the business owners would be bound by minimum wage laws. That's not "wages going up." That's cheaters not being allowed to cheat.
no.....no...........no
you're ignoring my point. (on purpose?)
We saw when Trump got elected JUST kinda starting to enforce immigration caused a worker shortage and people saw their wages go Up without any minimum wage adjustment.
Right now, with so many off of work and flush with pandemic cash, employers are scrambling just to have a full staff......AND offering even more money for people just to show up to work.
You figure with millions less bodies in the country, that Demand wouldn't be just as high if not higher?
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Post by abbey1227 on Jul 1, 2022 11:36:42 GMT
Ummm... without the illegals the business owners would be bound by minimum wage laws. That's not "wages going up." That's cheaters not being allowed to cheat. One of the things Karl Marx got right was the power inbalance between those with and without capital, that is, employers and employees. Employers in most circumstance (and always with the lowest paid and lowest skilled jobs) can give whatever they want as payment, with little consideration for value added. External input, usually in the form of a mandated minimum wage is needed, otherwise serfdom or slavery are the end result. And the argument that higher wages leads to fewer jobs is bogus. Wages are just one expense. Premises rent, insurance, cost of equipment and consumables are equally important. If an employer can't pay proper prices for any of those the business is not viable. Wages are the only expenses usually mentioned because it is the only expense easily within the employers power. As mentioned, serfdom and slavery were once considered good answers to this dilemma.
If the oh so skilled workers can't form a voluntary union/commune and start their own business without the expense of a greedy, evil capitalist at the top ..........then what is their excuse for not opening their own businesses?
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Post by Prometheus on Jul 1, 2022 11:48:25 GMT
Ummm... without the illegals the business owners would be bound by minimum wage laws. That's not "wages going up." That's cheaters not being allowed to cheat.
no.....no...........no
you're ignoring my point. (on purpose?)
We saw when Trump got elected JUST kinda starting to enforce immigration caused a worker shortage and people saw their wages go Up without any minimum wage adjustment.
Right now, with so many off of work and flush with pandemic cash, employers are scrambling just to have a full staff......AND offering even more money for people just to show up to work.
You figure with millions less bodies in the country, that Demand wouldn't be just as high if not higher?
Are you saying that people who already had jobs saw their wages go up?
Just starting to enforce immigration? So, all that bitching you guys did about Obama's detention centers was just a bunch of lies?
Flush with pandemic cash? How much as been handed out over there?
Demand is going to rise but that doesn't mean that wages are going to rise. It just means there will be more people getting paid what they are supposed to get rather immigrants getting paid less under the table.
I don't think you understand how numbers work.
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Post by abbey1227 on Jul 1, 2022 11:58:00 GMT
Are you saying that people who already had jobs saw their wages go up?
Just starting to enforce immigration? So, all that bitching you guys did about Obama's detention centers was just a bunch of lies?
Flush with pandemic cash? How much as been handed out over there?
Demand is going to rise but that doesn't mean that wages are going to rise. It just means there will be more people getting paid what they are supposed to get rather immigrants getting paid less under the table.
I don't think you understand how numbers work.
Yes. I did. Others I know did.
I really never understood the entire point of those detention centers........just seems like a Govt Cup Game to me. DEPORT IMMEDIATELY those who shouldn't be here.
There was 3 payments of $1200/per person.......PLUS an extra $500 per child in the household. And then there are monthly child payments that never stopped. Doesn't seem much to a big wheeler dealer like you perhaps.........but it led to American's savings accounts going UP for the first time in many, many years. And all that without millions working?
Dude, I'm just telling you........it went up under Trump, which was surprising, but nice. And then once the pandemic hit, employers were offering more just to show up. And since things started opening back up, nobody wants to work.......so the starting pay has leapt up. What was a $9/hr job just 3-4 years ago? They're now offering $15-18. And people STILL aren't showing up even for interviews.
Weird how you keep insisting I know little of numbers or math or finances.........but compared to most, I do pretty darn well. On what most would consider peasant pay. (Yeah, yeah, your incorrec theory is that the beard covers all my shortages ![[rolleye1]](//storage.proboards.com/7182076/images/MTjbungPBOzv0BKQvdPJ.gif) ) |
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Post by hairynosedwombat on Jul 1, 2022 13:33:15 GMT
One of the things Karl Marx got right was the power inbalance between those with and without capital, that is, employers and employees. Employers in most circumstance (and always with the lowest paid and lowest skilled jobs) can give whatever they want as payment, with little consideration for value added. External input, usually in the form of a mandated minimum wage is needed, otherwise serfdom or slavery are the end result. And the argument that higher wages leads to fewer jobs is bogus. Wages are just one expense. Premises rent, insurance, cost of equipment and consumables are equally important. If an employer can't pay proper prices for any of those the business is not viable. Wages are the only expenses usually mentioned because it is the only expense easily within the employers power. As mentioned, serfdom and slavery were once considered good answers to this dilemma.
If the oh so skilled workers can't form a voluntary union/commune and start their own business without the expense of a greedy, evil capitalist at the top ..........then what is their excuse for not opening their own businesses?
The lack of capital prevents many from starting their own business. Also temperament, management skills are necessary to be a boss. Some people like to be on wages. |
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Post by Prometheus on Jul 1, 2022 23:48:53 GMT
Are you saying that people who already had jobs saw their wages go up?
Just starting to enforce immigration? So, all that bitching you guys did about Obama's detention centers was just a bunch of lies?
Flush with pandemic cash? How much as been handed out over there?
Demand is going to rise but that doesn't mean that wages are going to rise. It just means there will be more people getting paid what they are supposed to get rather immigrants getting paid less under the table.
I don't think you understand how numbers work.
Yes. I did. Others I know did.
I really never understood the entire point of those detention centers........just seems like a Govt Cup Game to me. DEPORT IMMEDIATELY those who shouldn't be here.
There was 3 payments of $1200/per person.......PLUS an extra $500 per child in the household. And then there are monthly child payments that never stopped. Doesn't seem much to a big wheeler dealer like you perhaps.........but it led to American's savings accounts going UP for the first time in many, many years. And all that without millions working?
Dude, I'm just telling you........it went up under Trump, which was surprising, but nice. And then once the pandemic hit, employers were offering more just to show up. And since things started opening back up, nobody wants to work.......so the starting pay has leapt up. What was a $9/hr job just 3-4 years ago? They're now offering $15-18. And people STILL aren't showing up even for interviews.
Weird how you keep insisting I know little of numbers or math or finances.........but compared to most, I do pretty darn well. On what most would consider peasant pay. (Yeah, yeah, your incorrec theory is that the beard covers all my shortages ![[rolleye1]](//storage2.proboards.com/7182076/images/MTjbungPBOzv0BKQvdPJ.gif) ) Was your boss under a lot of pressure to hire illegals?
I'm guessing your raise didn't amount to the difference between "under the table employee" vs. "minimum wage employee" but simply as a reward for not dying.
$3,600 spread out over the course of how many months was enough for people to say, "Woohoo! I'm rich! Time to retire!"?
The average cost of raising a child to age 18 in the US is about $250,000. That's about $1,157.40/month.
I'll be honest, I can't see $10,200 (family of 4, paid 3 times) being enough to retire.
Of course you undermined your own argument anyway. First you said it was "immigrants' fear of Trump" then you went with "people were rich on free government money" which caused labor shortages resulting in increased wages.
I'm wondering if the labor shortages might have been caused by the 1,000,000 dead Americans and the 85,000,000 who got sick (many requiring hospitalization).
As for your "peasant pay," you have to admit that everything you have now is pretty much contingent upon what you did 30+ years ago and not on what you are doing today. You should be proud that you did it. However, you should also be very glad that you did it at a time when it was way more feasible than today.
And don't tell me that the beard never covered a shortfall or two over the years. And certainly don't tell me that you could have everything you have simply on your own.
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Post by abbey1227 on Jul 2, 2022 1:32:48 GMT
The lack of capital prevents many from starting their own business. Also temperament, management skills are necessary to be a boss. Some people like to be on wages.
While I would certainly criticize the banking industry and some of it's practices.......that lack of capital doesn't prevent the typical American from buying all sorts of other things.
They also go into debt on so many products and activities that are not even necessary. ![[giveup]](//storage.proboards.com/7182076/images/FSYefibmKqtatIXMgHZg.gif)
Ahhhh, so we can agree.........it usually takes some kind of personality type or drive that makes a person a boss/entrepreneur? And that group of people is a smaller percentage of most groups of people.
Exactly, most people like to avoid the risks and settle for the security of just plain working for others. It's a good thing or a bad thing, it's just a reality. But it gets avoided in these insipid conversations over wealth gaps and worker value.
The truth is very clear..........the tiny minority of people that become owners and bosses ARE more rare, thus more important than the typical and replaceable worker. Just like occurs elsewhere in nature.
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Post by abbey1227 on Jul 2, 2022 1:34:54 GMT
I'm wondering if the labor shortages might have been caused by the 1,000,000 dead Americans and the 85,000,000 who got sick (many requiring hospitalization).
Wonder away.
The death count you keep flying is pretty much inline with the annual trend the US was on BEFORE and since covid.
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Post by Prometheus on Jul 2, 2022 1:48:00 GMT
I'm wondering if the labor shortages might have been caused by the 1,000,000 dead Americans and the 85,000,000 who got sick (many requiring hospitalization).
Wonder away.
The death count you keep flying is pretty much inline with the annual trend the US was on BEFORE and since covid.
Nope. Those deaths are mostly extras.
But you keep spinning your misinformation and conspiracy theories if you want.
But if ProBoards sends me a warning, you'll be gone.
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Post by abbey1227 on Jul 2, 2022 2:00:06 GMT
Wonder away.
The death count you keep flying is pretty much inline with the annual trend the US was on BEFORE and since covid.
Nope. Those deaths are mostly extras.
But you keep spinning your misinformation and conspiracy theories if you want.
But if ProBoards sends me a warning, you'll be gone.
United States - Historical Death Rate Data
Year Death Rate Growth Rate
2022 9.075 1.090%
2021 8.977 1.090%
2020 8.880 1.120%
2019 8.782 1.120%
2018 8.685 1.220%
2017 8.580 1.240%
2016 8.475 1.270%
2015 8.369 1.270%
2014 8.264 1.290%
2013 8.159 0.090%
2012 8.152 0.090%
2011 8.145 0.090%
2010 8.138 0.090%
2009 8.131 0.090%
2008 8.124 -0.960%
2007 8.203 -0.950%
2006 8.282 -0.960%
2005 8.362 -0.940%
2004 8.441 -0.930%
2003 8.520 -0.330%
2002 8.548 -0.330%
2001 8.576 -0.310%
2000 8.603 -0.320%
1999 8.631 -0.320%
1998 8.659 -0.370%
1997 8.691 -0.360%
1996 8.722 -0.370%
1995 8.754 -0.350%
1994 8.785 -0.360%
1993 8.817 -0.310%
1992 8.844 -0.300%
1991 8.871 -0.300%
1990 8.898 -0.300%
======================================================
Looks to me like the same sorta statistical swings as with the climate change debate. As if there's even a debate allowed anymore
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Post by Prometheus on Jul 2, 2022 3:17:06 GMT
Right at the top of the page:
NOTE: All 2020 and later data are UN projections and DO NOT include any impacts of the COVID-19 virus.
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Post by abbey1227 on Jul 2, 2022 12:20:46 GMT
Right at the top of the page: NOTE: All 2020 and later data are UN projections and DO NOT include any impacts of the COVID-19 virus.
So exclude 2020-2022.........what was the overall trend telling you before covid even arrived?
The US is getting more obese and out of shape/unhealthy.
So a tougher bug's arrival, like Covid-19, was sure to hit us harder than younger and healthier populations.
I've never denied covid or packed a wallop.........but we've been seeing a downward trend in the Life Expectancy in the US. Like you've pointed out once or twice when it comes to morbidly obese celebs trying to pass themselves off as 'body positive' and whatever else message they're sending out these days........your eyes aren't lying to you. It ain't just the schooling and the crime that we're going backwards on.
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![[rolleye1]](http://storage.proboards.com/7182076/images/MTjbungPBOzv0BKQvdPJ.gif)
)![[rolleye1]](http://storage2.proboards.com/7182076/images/MTjbungPBOzv0BKQvdPJ.gif)
)![[giveup]](http://storage.proboards.com/7182076/images/FSYefibmKqtatIXMgHZg.gif)
![[cheers]](http://storage.proboards.com/7182076/images/engyBVslEdpmpmdnBwZQ.gif)
